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Why Did I Get Welsh Marches: Newport - Shrewsbury Route Add-on Again?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by trainsimplayer2020, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. trainsimplayer2020

    trainsimplayer2020 Member

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    Why did I get Welsh Marches: Newport - Shrewsbury Route Add-On for free when I already the original version with Arriva markings?
    How do I remove it from game?
     
  2. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    It's the unbranded version, they did it this was because if they updated the version existing users had you would no longer have a branded version.
     
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  3. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Active Member

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    For once, I think DTG have done this right.

    If they had de-branded the original version, they would have been taking content away from those that originally purchased it. So the only option, to get it back on sale was to release a separate route, which they have given to the original purchasers for free. At least we've not had to pay for it and we can now use workshop content created on either versions.
     
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  4. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Go in to your Steam Client > Library > Train Simulator 2020
    On the Right Hand Side you will see Manage my DLC - Click on that
    DLC .jpg
    Search for the new version then just Untick the box and click OK at the bottom
    If you want it back just repeat the process ticking the box.

    Peter
     
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  5. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    ^^ This! 100%
     
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  6. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    It was BMG that did the revamp. Being their only route I'm sure they thought it worthwhile to unbrand it and get it on the market again.
    I don't think DTG would find it worth their time to unbrand their routes that have been removed through licencing issues.
     
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  7. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Active Member

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    I knew it was a BMG route, it must of been so annoying to have it taken off sale, so soon after release.

    I thought I read somewhere when the Arriva issue first arose that it heavily used DTG's rolling stock assets, so I assumed it was DTG that had done the de-branding work. Anyway it's good to see it back on sale.
     
  8. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    No need to search for it Peter after clicking on manage my DLC in the next window that opens up just enter the name of the route in the search box and press enter and it should show up. A lot easier than the old interface.
     
  9. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You have just contradicted yourself Trev,

    I said "Manage my DLC - Click on that" and "Search for the new version"
    I did not actually say "in the Manage my DLC" but it does seem obvious if you have just opened it
     
  10. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    No, you don't have to search for it you just enter the title of the route in the search box and it finds the route for you.
     
  11. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    How do you know which is which tho, AFAIK they both have the same name...
     
  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You are just being Pedantic
    Entering the title in the Search box is the way to Search for it.

    They have different route numbers
    BMG Welsh Marches Line - Newport to Shrewsbury (original version): 00000068-b000-0000-0000-000000002016
    BMG Welsh Marches Line - Newport to Shrewsbury (debranded version): 57268762-965a-4379-9837-3e39210b4cb6

    Peter
     
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  13. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Active Member

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  14. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Active Member

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    I can see where confusion might arise this is the search result via Steam and View ny DLC and it shows the two routes, same icon and same date installed on my PC. So the only way to distinguish them is by their GUID ID AlphaNumeric ID's as P749 gives above.
    pH
     
  15. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    Going by the "New Releases" Section on the DLC Store page then this is the new one....
    Image2.jpg
    Note the "WELSH MARCHES" is in line not WELSH above MARCHES as in the first of the two DLC shown in your screenshot.
     
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  16. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    Confirmed, I just un-installed the re-release to check..
    Image4.jpg
     
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  17. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    I pointed that out a few days ago but I can't find the comment now [Edit: found it- in another thread of course...]. I hadn't noticed before but the thumbnail is slightly different- same picture I think but cropped less for the new version.

    Having both complete versions of the route installed and taking up- what? a couple of GB each is a little vexatious, especially if you're running a bit low on storage, but I suppose keeping them completely separate does make distribution, keeping track of dependencies and the like simpler. Odd that there seems to be no distinction between the two under the Career tab though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  18. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    With a total drive space on my system of 4.5Tb of which a 1Tb SSD is just for Steam and another separate 250gb SSD just for TS2020 I think I can afford the space taken up by a duplicate Welsh Marches. :D:D
     
  19. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Active Member

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    JJT
    Circa 620 MB for each variant not 2Gb each
     
  20. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    Well as long as you're OK I guess everything's fine.

    I confess I didn't check for myself- I was going from memory of what someone in another thread said. The chap raised the matter because he was concerned that he was running out of space as a matter of fact. Does make me wonder why the download was around 1.5GB though. In my experience unpacked downloads usually take up more space not less. Maybe it depends on the packaging.
     
  21. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I think the size was the route plus the new Assets pack to go with it
     
  22. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    thumbs up.gif
     
  23. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    I had a 1.5 GB download for TS the other day which I presume was the Welsh Marshes one. I have the original branded one.
     
  24. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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  25. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Active Member

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    JJT
    Apologies I had forgotten about the Asset pack also being downloaded!!:love:
     
  26. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    No apology necessary. I got curious though and I've had a look for myself:
    TSWelshMarches.png
    These are in Railworks/Assets/BMG so I guess these are just the assets packs and the routes(s) are another 600MB. I'm not crying out for storage space but that's quite a lot. I'd've thought it possible to create an asset pack that both routes could share with separate ones for each route to cover the differences but then the older route would have needed updating which would make for a bigger download.

    I may well be talking through my hat because I've not really looked into how these things work... but that is quite a lot of storage space.
     
  27. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    Ok on the 7th of the 8th in my RW Folder, for the route it installed 603 MB and for the Assets, it installed 2.83 GB
     
  28. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    I guess due to the system with AP files they need to have them completely separate (with a heap of duplication inside them)? :/ So much easier it'd have been if they'd kept the original system and just could've applied new textures over the old ones...
     
  29. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If they had done that it might have overwritten the original route - and then people wpuld be upset.

    There is nothing to stop people uninstalling either version via the Steam Client and deleting the folder in Assets
    You can download it again later if wanted.

    Peter
     
  30. USRailFan

    USRailFan Member

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    How could some replacement textures overwrite an entire route?
     
  31. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    it would overwrite the textures that had the same name.

    So DTG released this version of the route
    Which has to be the Full version as there is no requirement for owning the old version.

    So what do they send out - how could they have kept the original system if some people did not own it?
     
  32. Aryffordd

    Aryffordd New Member

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    It feels like this is going to continue to happen for as long as licensing deals exist, and there isn't really an alternative to having multiple variants of the same routes as a result. But with that in mind, perhaps DTG could consider developing a system where the routes are tagged in the file structure with "Compatible with Whatever Route" so that irrespective of which version you choose (or are forced via lack of availability) to use, that extensions, scenarios, traction etc etc can work more easily across the variants?

    I'm not implying this would be easy by any means, but neither would I suspect that it's that hard either :)

    (I'm new to all this so apologies if I've missed some salient point)
     
  33. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite get the "this route is compatible with that route" bit.
    Routes are released with Trains and Scenarios so the person who buys it has trains and somewhere to run them

    You could release a route that has no branding but what era do you set it in?
    BR Blue has been suggested in the previous posts - no problems with branding.
    That restricts what stock the route has and the trains that will run on it

    When WCML over Shap was made as I think a License for Virgin Trains would be coming and it did not.
    So the route was released with BR Blue locos and stock - the infrastructure was set in the early 2000, the trains were 1978 ish

    WCML London to Birmingham has been asked for
    But in what era - if you make it for today DTG, currently has no License to use Avanti Livery so no Class 390
    And maybe no License for LNW so no Class 350 units
    Do you release a route set in 2000 but with stock from 1980 or do you build the route as it was in 1980?

    Peter
     
  34. Aryffordd

    Aryffordd New Member

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    Sorry, I wasn’t very clear. When I said compatible I mean that the two forks of the same route are compatible with additions designed for one or other fork. How I understand it has worked with BMG’s Welsh Marches add-on is that the new release is the same as the old release but with debranded trains - the era, trains and route all remain the same, it’s just a debranding exercise on the trains themselves to allow them to sell it again (and me buy it, as it happens!) Yes I can run the scenarios provided along the route provided with the trains provided. But (and please tell me if I am wrong because I -want- to be wrong on this), if I were to try and download scenarios, route extensions, route merges etc published by the wider community that required the previous, branded version of the welsh marches add-on, they won’t work on the unbranded version as the ID for the old and new add ons are different.

    If there was a way for devs to mark two routes as compatible forks of each other and for other devs to read and take that into account in their work when they have those routes (or other elements) as dependencies, then it at least makes it easier when dealing with transitions between, in this example, ATW Branded to debranded to, maybe in the future, to TfW branded. All in the same rough era, of course! This is just about what happens to existing routes that get buggered by legal departments and licensing issues.

    Again, I’m new to all this so if I’m missing something, please let me know.
     
  35. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Active Member

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    Aryfford
    What you say is essentially correct, but fortunately Danny over on the Steam community forum has issued a merged route: [UB] South Wales + Welsh Marches Line - Shrewsbury to Bristol + Swansea 2016 - PLEASE NOTE: This version of the route requires the UNBRANDED version of Welsh Marches released on 07/08/2020.
    So it could be that future addons, scenarios etc will hopefully cater for both routes.
     
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  36. martschuffing

    martschuffing Member

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    Be nice if someone with the appropriate desire and skills could do a branding patch for the new unbranded route to TfW? :)
     
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  37. Aryffordd

    Aryffordd New Member

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    Thank you Peter for the tip - it really is great to see people producing merged routes like this, but it does also highlight the issue. The South Wales route has also been nixed for branding reasons, though I see elsewhere on here people mentioning that a TfW version may be on the way (allowing me to get a bit more of my home nation's network and maybe one day be able to drive from Carmarthen all the way through to Manchester Piccadilly). If that comes, then this route merge would end up with four combinations - SWC ATW with WM Branded, SWC TfW with WM Branded, SWC ATW with WM Unbranded, SWC TfW with WM Unbranded.

    It could get messy quickly, and is reliant on the goodwill of devs to put their time in to produce multiple versions of the same merges.

    Anyhow. Maybe it doesn't effect enough routes to be of any real significance and not worth the development time for DTG to produce a solution. It's just all the routes affected seem to be in Wales, hurumph! :)
     
  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    DTG are already in talks with TfW IP dept to obtain the license for the publically owned branding TfW use. Once they get this DTG can do it themselves
     
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  39. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    Peter, I have posted about 6 messages above the links to Dannys WS extensions for this route. There are two of them one for the branded and one for the unbranded route.
     
  40. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Active Member

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    Trev123
    Thanks!
    pH
     
  41. trainsimplayer2020

    trainsimplayer2020 Member

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    Anyway this is confusing which is old and which is new.
     
  42. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    Do you know how to scroll? If yes, then scroll up ↑ ↑ ↑
     
  43. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    It's not confusing to tell the two apart the branded version has a flag on it, and the unbranded does not have a flag on the icon.
     
  44. trainsimplayer2020

    trainsimplayer2020 Member

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    The confusing thing was to find out which to remove so you only have the original but now I only have the original installed.

    About the flags I know but the dlc on the steam app do not have it where you search which dlc you have.

    But after reading all the threads here in my starting thread then I know which I should remove and now it is done.
     

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