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Why I'm Annoyed With Dovetail Games And Their Business Practices

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by tallboy7648, May 7, 2020.

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  1. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think we all would like longer routes, I certainly would. However rather than ranting on here, try and look at it from a business owners point of view and the expenditure of running a business and producing content and from a profit and loss basis.

    You have to pay salaries, employer NI and pensions paid to HMRC, development costs, training costs, IT costs, business rates, rent of premises, service charges, business insurance, public liability insurance, travel costs, expenses on research trips, research material. All this needs to be costed in and the more frequent they release DLC the more it keeps cash flow coming in. Everything is built to a budget which is factored into the cost and development time, whether it is a house, a tube of toothpaste or digital content. They are a business and they need to make a profit otherwise the they stop trading, and they know how much they need to charge whether we/you/me like it or not, it is reality. TSW is far more detailed and complex than TS1, that is clear that is why we get 40 miles routes rather than 80 mile routes.
     
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  2. grafspee12

    grafspee12 New Member

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    I wish that we got 40 miles, most of them are shorter. I woudl say that 25-30 miles is average.
     
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  3. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    Mineola to ronkonkoma is only a 41 minute train ride for the Lirr.
     
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  4. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    We dont even have much of 40 mile route dlcs I mean Peninsula Corridor is the longest one like 42 or more miles but that's it everything else is cut in the low-mid 20 mile route....how they got the PC dlc to go 40 or plus mile route in tsw but not others..even if it was 35 mile route...ehhh ok that's a start but 20-25 miles dont cut it for me
     
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  5. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    At that time when they made longer routes it took a heck of a lot of time in between route releases, so we wouldn’t have gotten a new route in 3 months or so, not even a loco add on, now we get routes less than a month between the last, even if they’re shorter. Of course I would also like longer routes but the waiting time would be more.
     
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  6. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    Yea I remember that I jus wish the LIRR wouldve gone further to Port Washington, Huntington and Ronkonkoma(if not then Farmingdale)...even the spawn walking on the Oyster Bay line u are bout to reach East Wilinston til it blacks u put of session...if it did that I wouldve been fine plus needed more ai traffic it feels HELLA dead...I'm pretty sure others asking extensions like GWR(it was one of the first for TSW), but we will see what in the future holds on that
     
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  7. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I road on ai train after I got done a service from Hicksville it gose in the Huntington direction and it blacksout after your on the Huntington Branch tracks whatever the future holds I hope it’s extended to ronkonkoma, Huntington or Port Washington.
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I hope they Extend it. This is why I'm frustrated with DTG
     
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  9. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see a extension to for lirr sometime in the future.
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I would eventually like to see all the lines of the Long Island Railroad added because due to the fact that it runs on a realistic timetable, that's why the railroad isn't busy at all. Also they need to fix the passengers. There needs to be more passengers. The destination boards on the side of the M7 should also be able to work. It shouldn't be blank. It's ridiculous
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  11. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    You need patience pretty much everyone realises that you want a route extension and destination board on the M7 and more passengers but you can’t just be here to rant about this. If you just keep on doing this what’s the point of being here. Like someone else said you need to have a mix of criticism and praise here.
     
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  12. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't know where you got that impression from, I haven't seen him mention it !

    I do think posters need to be balanced, you read some rants on here and you would think TSW was unusable and there was nothing good about it, if so why does that person even have it installed on their system, if indeed they do! I accept that some probably paint too rosy a picture but there are clearly some who use TSW without getting angst about it and others who obviously don't.

    Anyway I demand that DTG make the complete WCML from Euston to Glasgow Central with the Northampton and Birmingham and Wolverhampton loops, the lines to LIverpool and Manchester, the Preston to Blackpool line, the Lancaster to Barrow Line and the Carstairs to Edinburgh Waverley line and maybe the Dumfries route, and if they could include class 303, 304, 310, 311 EMUS, class 81 to 87 electrics, class 101, 104, 105, 107, 108, 116, 120 DMU's and a class 08, 20, 25, 27, 31, 40, 45, 47 all in BR blue, I would be very grateful.
     
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  13. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I think that a kind of strategic development would be a huge benefit and allow much fuller routes. The example I made before was the development of the Birmingham Cross City line that I suggested. An initial DLC could be the Birmingham electric lines with the 323 EMUs, running from New Street to Bromsgrove plus the Redditch branch would give a couple of end-point options, a decent length run, and while the line technically does continue north of New Street, it's the 'full route' that most people heading south from the city centre would see. I'd buy that.

    You could then provide an add-on DLC with the 172 DMUs running from New Street to Worcester, and with it, you'd get an extension of the route (from Bromsgrove to Worcester) which would add more distance and they could recover some of the development costs by bundling it with the train. None of which would affect the base route or its services. You could also add in a re-used 66 with some freight services up the Lickey Incline at this point to further encourage purchases.

    Finally, you could add on the CrossCountry Voyager as a DLC and with it, a track extension from Bromsgrove to Worcester Parkway, or Cheltenham. There would be quite a bit of additional route dev for this one, but the route from New Street to Bromsgrove is already built and paid for, and I think there would be a strong uptake of a 220 DLC to cover those costs. The split to this route is just after Bromsgrove so as long as that much of the track was included in the base route, you'd be able to own the base and 220 packs without specifically needing the 172 pack, but if you bought all three, you'd get a nice network of routes with a good mix of trains, and all viably funded. Again, this wouldn't affect any of the already existing routes or timetables, as long as it was all properly planned from the outset.
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on the fact that DTG needs to put a strategy in place to extend routes because everytime DTG is gonig to release a new route that doesn't allow us to go the full way, you're gonna get a vast majority of people asking for extensions. Now while people may see people asking for extensions as rants, they are justified. It's nice that DTG want's to make new routes, but the new routes should allow us to go the full destination as posted in the train or timetable. If a line is 48.5 miles, we should be able to go the full 48.5 miles, not 23 miles. They have to make future dlc that will go the full way. I also believe that there finally needs to be a strategy put in place to extend routes like Great Western Express which has been out for three years or Bascially all the routes that don't go the full way
     
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  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Vast majority, would you have evidence to back that up? I haven't seen that many ask for an extension there are a few on here, a few on Facebook, but they demand everything on there and on the other couple of train sim forums I visit TSW has very little coverage!

    Vast majority would mean at least 90% of "people" asking for an extension!
     
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  16. Captaintraincrash

    Captaintraincrash Active Member

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    Could u stop posing this
     
  17. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    It takes me 54 minutes to get suburban sunset done from Hicksville to Pennsylvania station at least they could extend the route to Huntington or ronkonkoma I hope they’ll do it in the future.
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It should have gone to ronkonkoma when the route was released in the first place. The distance between New York Penn Station and Ronkonkoma is 48.5 miles which isn't long at all.
     
  19. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I know hopefully there’s a Third party group creating the ronkonkoma Branch?
     
  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think they should get third party support in future routes so people can get a full route experience.
     
  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why DTG is so hesitant to say it there is a third-party support working on routes
     
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  22. fabdiva

    fabdiva Active Member

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    I suspect based on the experience they got from the recent LIRR release, announcing stuff early just means they get clogged with "when is it out" spam. I very strongly suspect there are partner programme third parties working on routes, but given that they'll be learning a new engine, new creation process, new optimisation process, service mode etc etc, I suspect it'll be a while before we see anything from them.
     
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  23. stowersjames9

    stowersjames9 New Member

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    Dovetail is not a company that was born to please you and you only with IRL models that are exactly what they are in real life.
     
  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I hope they have third party support. I also do think that they should've learned all the nooks and cranks of the game engine by now.
     
  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why we couldn't go to Ronkonkoma. It should've been easy to go there
     
  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is easy to say it but how long would it take to have added it? How do you know it wouldn't have added another two months to the project?
     
  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It probably wouldn't be that long. The peninsula Corridor is more than 40 miles. The Ronkonkoma branch is 48.5 miles total on the LIRR, it mostly goes through wooded areas anyways so it wouldn't take that long
     
  28. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    It would because of the length and DTG aren’t going to extend routes anytime soon. You need to understand that
    How do know that DTG are or aren’t taking extensions into consideration, it’s not like you work there to be ranting about stuff you don’t have confirmation of. You need to be patient and time will tell whether DTG are going to do extensions for now
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    People have been waiting for a long time and people other than myself have been asking for extensions for a whlie now. People are tied of getting short routes as well in the steam reviews I read
     
  30. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    Peninsula corridor is about 47 miles so they could easily extend the Long Island railroad route to ronkonkoma,Huntington,Long beach or far rockaway.
     
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That can easily be done, but you got people defending dtg on why they can't for some silly reason. Saying that DTG can't add an additional 23.5 miles is just stupid.
     
  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Oh my word, kill me now. You’re going round in endless circles. The route is as long as it is and you will just have to put up with it. It’s not going to change. Get over it. If you want to go to Ronkonkoma so much get on a real train and go there in person. Come back and tell us all about it. We’ll be all ears. Don’t buy a sandwich though because if there isn’t as much ham in it as you would have liked we might never hear the ruddy end of it. Why couldn’t they put more ham in it. There’s more ham in a sandwich in real life. Stop defending the sandwich shop for putting less ham in it. I think a third party should put more ham in my sandwich. The sandwich should have had more ham in it to start off with. The sandwich was too expensive. And there wasn’t enough ham in it. They could have put more ham in it, it’s not difficult. Other people have been asking for more ham for years now. I think there’s a community group working on a ham extension program. I want more ham.
     
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  33. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I’ve taken the train from stony brook to Jamaica once to go see a rangers I had to change at Jamaica for the train to Pennsylvania station that train ride was 1 hour and 48 minutes.
     
  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's not that long for a long island railroad train ride
     
  35. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Can one of the Devs close this thread because this is ending up as endless pointless arguments.
     
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  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Why you want it closed, people have a right to read it and give an opinion
     
  37. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    You keep replying with the same argument. There is no point to keep this thread open if your going to keep arguing about the same thing to keep this thread visible to others
     
  38. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    It's really sad that dtg is being compared to ea But I agree about the price & the length of the route & how many trains run on it but they don't do this for train simulator the routes on the game are the same in real life
     
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  39. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    The pricing vs content argument is always going to flash-over on a routine basis with TSW and TS1. Unfortunately, TSW is not a niche product - it is an exclusive product.

    You have to be able to afford it if you want a more complete experience. If you haven't got the cash, then you'll just have to accept less. If you are on PC then you can massively reduce your cost because there are so many external vendors selling TS1 and TSW content at "80% discount" - alternatively known as "a reasonably normal price".
     
  40. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    I agree it doesn't matter the price doesn't matter as long as you want the route the quality is good then that's all that matters you don't have to get the routes that you don't like
     
  41. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I would spend £9.99 on a diary to do some planning, and put £5000 into a limited access account to use for Quality Assurance at the end, and then spend the other £152, 990.01 on making the route.
     
  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I read a steam review comparing the price of routes to ea. I can afford the routes but the problem is the routes are short and some people complain that it's not worth the price. Now if the route was a full line route or it goes the full way, then I believe the price can be justified. Now I could understand the development time of a route because they take a while to make. But I think $29.99 for not a full route experience and lack of scenarios is not justifiable at all
     
  43. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    I will have to agree with you saying that short routes are still being charged for £24.99/$29.99
    Unless the short ones are detailed more which would explain it
     
  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Routes on TSW are more detailed, the stock is more detailed, creating a service mode timetable will take longer.

    Many seem to have an obsession with the cost but don't think about what goes into producing a product.

    I don't think comparing TSW and TS1 is helpful.
     
  45. fabdiva

    fabdiva Active Member

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    As I've said several times but have been ignored, the production cost per kilometre is much higher for TSW. Given people a few posts up are suggesting that £24.99 is too much for full price (and that the real price should be 80% less), then obviously something else is going to have to give. Building games to modern standards is expensive, just look at all the extra monetisation that the AAA companies are putting into games so they can pretend the price is still £40. Fallout 76 now has microtransactions, battle passes AND a $100 per year subscription. Optional maybe, but you can bet Fallout 76 is designed to make progress without additional payment as unrewarding as possible.

    If the value at full price annoys you, just wait for a sale or get something you will enjoy.
     
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  46. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree with this completely. Frankly, if you can make a product and normally sell it for $5, but some people are prepared to pay $30 for it for a few months when it is released then you would have to be stark raving mad (as a seller) to not fully exploit the initial sale of the product at $30, or an undiscount of +500%. And then when you reduce the price to $10 you can make it look like a -66% discount that you have made, out of the kindness of your heart, as you sell it for an undiscount of only +100%.....

    You can get an extremely realistic simulator for free of course, with RailDriver support, and a free building to put a full simulator rig in. You first have to order $800 million of real rolling stock from Siemens - but you will get the simulator for free.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  47. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    True
    I feel like at this point The arguments against dtg are being repeated that’s why before I asked for one of the devs To close this thread
     
  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think several of us have repeated this several times but I think the seeds are falling on stony ground!
     
  49. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Is this discussion still ongoing? I would have thought people are getting tired™. But then again I suppose it's got to reach its full destination™.


    For me route length isn't my top priority. Journey time and route complexity is more important. That said, would I like to travel beyond Reading? Yes.

    I believe LIRR was the most difficult route to create because DTG couldn't get access to it*. So "just adding" something to it would, I presume, be equally difficult.

    *As heard on a stream ©
     
  50. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    well they could get video and pictures of the route from the people who ride on the Lirr for part of the years.
     

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