Why Isn't The Fgw Hst Officially Enabled In Gwe?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Nov 6, 2020.

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  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to a bit of magicary aka modding, we are able to get the FGW HST to show up for GWE in TSW 2. This was all possible as the FGW HST was included in a development version of TSW 1, which was accidently leaked during an update.

    However the above question has never been answered by DTG as to why it hasn't been enabled by default for us users to use, without having to mod it in. So I'm hoping we'll finally get a concrete reply as to why in this thread.

    During the wait for the reply, have a look at what you're missing out on:

    fgw hst 1.jpg fgw hst 2.jpg fgw hst 3.jpg fgw hst 4.jpg
     
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  2. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Originally, I think it was to do with how the game selected liveries, but I think it's now because DTG don't have a license to make/release any FGW-branded content but DO have one to release GWR-branded content (unless that's since been revoked too), but First haven't fully revoked the license which is why FGW/GWR stuff can continue to be sold (presumably all FGW/GWR content may end up being pulled if First don't renew the license - whenever the time comes).
     
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  3. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    First question is why is it in release build if they dont have a license for it ? :) In TSW 2020 they removed some key files so it was impossible to activate it without that leaked dev build. And here they just give us all :)
     
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  4. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Presumably because either it was included in a dev build but locked when they lost the franchise but not removed, or one of the devs wants to land DTG in some very hot water. I'm going to guess the former.
     
  5. BinaryRun

    BinaryRun Active Member

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    Can you please explain how to activate and use this livery or is it maybe in a discord somewhere? :love:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  6. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    A pak file for it should be made available shortly once a few things are sorted out first.
     
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  7. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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  8. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It was explained in a live stream ages ago that it was a livery that was made for an internal test and was never intended to be released.
     
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  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    But the question is, why? GWE is set in early 2016, when FGW liveries still dominated the GWML.
     
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  10. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    All I can say:

    Congratulations, people. I am jealous of you. I wish i knew how to mod TSW that well.

    Cheers,
    Prof.
     
  11. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Because DTG are actually conducting a gigantic behavioural experiment on all its customers for a secret government agency and wanted to see what we'd do if they made something then locked it away probably not.
     
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  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I can’t remember why. The thing is it was never meant to be accessed by players. I don’t know the full ins and outs of why one livery was released instead of another, DTG have licenses for the liveries, so maybe that. I just remember Matt saying it was in the build as part of a test.
     
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  13. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    It may have been to see how the game copes with complex liveries. i don't know, just a thought.
     
  14. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    It was something to do with being a part of an experimental expanded timetable. It does not seem like Matt has finished reworking the timetable (which would utilise the FGW HST), so the livery also never got around to being officially released.
     
  15. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Does it replace all HSTs or does it make them spawn randomly in one or another livery?
     
  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I just tested the mod out in service mode and it randomly assigns the AI liveries for both the HST and 166s

    Very nice
     
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  17. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I see it as a portent, of all the preserved content the HST is by far the train with the most different liveries, so why not experiment!

    Seriously, if modders can change the livery on a loco that supposedly doesn't have the separate model required for this in the livery editor then is that really required?!
     
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  18. hightower

    hightower Guest

    :oThanks trainsimcz for the mod, excellent work.

    I hadn’t realised it had been included with TSW2 but the fact that it has must have been intentional.

    I know that when it first appeared and everybody was getting hold of it for TSW, MP was not against it being used (other than that it was unfinished) but was justifiably concerned that people might drop themselves in it for violating Steams ‘Terms Of Service’, due to the hack required to get hold of it.

    Its readily available inclusion with TSW2 would suggest two things to me...

    1) DTG have done people a favour allowing this to be utilised (with a bit of knowhow) without having to ‘hack’ Steam
    2) I suspect that an update to GWE will appear at some point in the future with Matt’s new timetable utilising these liveries. Hopefully (and logically), that update will include a working PIS too.

    Aside from that, I don’t for one minute buy the argument that DTG have somehow incompetently released a livery for which they have no licence. Give them some credit at least.

    Either way, for now, I’m just pleased that we get to use it, so thanks trainsimcz and thanks DTG! With the new sounds and this livery, GWE has never been better. If only the HST could reach 125mph though. What happened there?! :o
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2020
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  19. BinaryRun

    BinaryRun Active Member

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    This is just hearsay from the xbox forums, but what I understand is that it's an old bug from TSW2020 that has resurfaced in the preserved collection. Basically the engine of the second loc isn't turned on by default and you need to manually go over there and set it up. (I haven't gotten around to GWE myself yet, so I cannot confirm)

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/gwe-is-finally-here.30702/#post-202542
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
  20. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    The reason the FGW 166 and HST are so "buggy" is because they're an unfinished prototype from when GWE was in development (the rain effects on the 166 windscreen are completely broken which iirc was a thing in the original release of GWE, and all the FGW HSTs are numbered 43 345). Just be glad it doesn't have the gangway glitch). I've had no problems getting the GWR liveried HST up to 125 (Not driven the FGW one yet).

    Should point out I downloaded the mod within 40 minutes of it appearing on here so if it's been updated, I haven't got the update.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
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  21. BinaryRun

    BinaryRun Active Member

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    The bug that I quoted is from the xbox forums though and they can't access the FGW version anyhow. But if you have no issues with the HST on PC, then that's reliable enough for me. =)
     
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  22. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    It was a leak. It should never have been in a release build full stop, but now it's baked into the release build (albeit locked away) so it'll be a massive hassle to get it out. A massive hassle that will probably break something else I doubt they'd dare touch it.
     
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  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Anyone notice that that mod brings the old HUD?
     
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  24. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yes I did. Wondered if it was permanent but just the speedo and just the FGW livery. There's apparently an updated version that uses the new HUD.
     
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  25. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    I managed it, no problem - it took a while to reach it like, just outside Slough heading East from Reading, and I had to ease off the power notch so not to go over 125.
     
  26. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Not for me....its still the TSW2 HUD albeit without the accelerometer (but the preserved GWE had no accelerometer anyway)
     
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  27. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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  28. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    FGW, GWR HST & 166 GWR is TSW2 Hud and the 166 FGW is TSW Hud
     
  29. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Just to be absolutely clear, I’m talking about the normal HST on GWE, not the FGW one. I bought this DLC when it very first came out and have seen all the iterations of the HST physics over its life. As a ‘preserved’ DLC, and with both engines running, the GWR HST is taking an unusual amount of time to reach 125mph, particularly heading towards London. It was (is) not like that in TSW2020.

    re the FGW liveries...the first time was a mistake. I don’t believe they would have made that same mistake again and ‘accidentally’ included it in a release build. If it was a licensing thing and it was too difficult to remove the model they could have always left it in and made the livery plain white. They haven’t done that, which makes me think it was intentional.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 7, 2020
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  30. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are right....the FGW 166 does have the old TSW1 HUD. Maybe Anthony should've made that clear as it doesnt affect the entire mod

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  31. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    So that’s very interesting. The HUD is tied to a specific model, rather than just being pulled from the base game. I guess in retrospect, it seems obvious, as different trains run on different power and display different gauges, but... that does mean that any changes (like different colours for acceleration/braking) evidently need to be done on a per-loco basis. Which just seems like a really inefficient way to do it.
     
  32. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    In this case it seems like the old TSW1 HUD is tied to the livery as the GWR livery'd 166 has the normal TSW2 HUD.
     
  33. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    Isn’t it technically a different model? I thought the Great Western liveries had the GWR logo on the side, which was a different model rather than just being a different texture.
     
  34. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I do not know...they seem like the same model with different skins to my eyes. Probably better for londonmidland or trainsimcz to chime in on this one
     
  35. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s a different model. The GWR HST has a 3D GWR logo on the side as well as different MK3 interior models. This isn’t simply a reskin.
     
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  36. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Also,I'm pretty sure on the 166 it has reflectivey bits and matt bits, which the FGW skin doesn't have, so it'd make sense for it to be a different model.
     
  37. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I didn't know that.
     
  38. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I've just thought, they may have included it (though locked it away) in the preserved version so they can use that model of the HST (and possibly 166) in the livery designer. Of course, they'd need to bring the trains up to scratch but just a thought, because it'd be silly to have the GWR raised lettering on the side of a HST with a custom livery that doesn't even vaguely resemble one a GWR HST could carry.

    Just a thought, and probably wrong tbh.
     
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  39. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Looks like latest roadmap update video answered this.
     
  40. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    By the latest roadmap stream, can you guess what they said they did? Oh dear...
     
  41. hightower

    hightower Guest

    I didn’t see it. What did they say?
     
  42. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Paraphrasing, Adam admitted that it was a mistake. They had originally designed that version of the HST for GWE but their contract with GWR ended up only allowing them to release the GWR version. So, for licensing reasons, they weren't able to release the FGW version of the train. The remnants of it landing in the production build was an error and not intentional. So... yes, they accidentally leaked a train which they did not have licence to release.
     
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  43. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Looks like I gave them too much credit then. Maybe a leopard really can’t change its spots. Ho hum.

    Time to back up the .pak just in case then.
     
  44. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    TBH it didn't seem they want to get rid of it. Normally it is inaccessible, so they have their back covered. If you get mods to unlock it, that's your decision. At least that's what Sam's comment came out as to me yesterday.
     
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  45. hightower

    hightower Guest

    I hope they don’t pull it as having it transforms this DLC.

    Why are TOC’s so weird about licensing in games? It’s laughable that in many instances they let their rolling stock operate in the real world looking like run down heaps of cr@p, but then get bent out of shape if something isn’t a recreation of their perfect corporate image in a computer game.

    Can’t help but feel they have their priorities upside down somehow!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2020
  46. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I have worked with some TOCs from my country on licensing for models. Maybe they just were exceptionally cool, maybe games would be treated differently even by them, but basically, they were like "if you keep the logos fine and colours correct, do whatever, here are also some design studies you can make that are not on the rails yet". We were even allowed to put their liveries on loco types they didn't even have in their roster. As long as the logo and colour hex codes were intact.
     
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  47. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    This was discussed in the stream of November 10th. Originally GWE was designed with this livery. Then due to licencing issues they had to switch to the green livery. Sam's comment: If you manage to use it, feel free, but it is not supported. I dare not say they forgot "deliberately" to remove the livery.
     
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  48. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Ok. So we give DTG credit again then? :);)

    I’d like to, because IMHO what they’ve done with deserves it. Have the mixture of liveries really adds to that. Yes there are still a number of problems & missing features but it feels like a new DLC all over again. It gives me that feeling I had right back at the beginning of TSW!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2020
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  49. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    DTG and players see it as free advertising. TOCs see it as a business risk. Go on YouTube, and type in "Train Simulator Crash" and you'll see what I mean. TOCs don't like that sort of thing because they worry it'll put them in a negative light.

    That's not the entire answer, but it's most of it. It's the reason TSW fades to black if you crash or SPAD. It could also be that First want to "forget" their FGW branding, and further push the GWR Green livery.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  50. hightower

    hightower Guest

    That’s what I mean though.

    They supposedly get bent out of shape because people might be very obviously messing around on a computer game and showing it on YouTube for other idiots to enjoy, yet their bread and butter, i.e. the running of actual trains, is often an overpriced cr@pshoot of poor quality and poor punctuality.

    They really need to re-assess their priorities if this theory is true (as it’s oft repeated but I’ve never seen any evidence of it).
     

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