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Why So Much Hate On Dtg?

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by HeuF, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. HeuF

    HeuF Active Member

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    I don't understand why so many people hate DTG. If I don't like something, I don't buy it. I love TSW and I am willing to pay a few bucks for it. After all, the developers also have to eat. Keep it up DTG!!
     
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  2. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Not this again...

    Edited by DTG Natster.

    I repeat, you can't dismiss criticism for something by saying "just don't buy it". It doesn't fix the issue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2021
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  3. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    He/she is entitled to their opinion without it being described as such.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2021
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  4. HeuF

    HeuF Active Member

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    It's my opinion and I'm a bit done with all this here on the forum about prices. If you don't like it, stop it. It's that simple and don't tire me with all kinds of nonsense stories. As I write this I think to myself, what am I still doing on this forum. Instead of reading what other players encounter in the game or have tips and tricks, I read too much on the forum.

    Edited by DTG Natster.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2021
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  5. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I don’t hate DTG or the people that work there. I do hate some of the decisions they make.

    If I hated DTG, I wouldn’t be here. I just want TSW to be the very best it can be. It has HUGE potential.
     
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  6. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    The prices may be a bit high for some dlc , but I think at the end of the day it’s worth it
     
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  7. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with the price. If the result is worth it. I've never looked at the price, but what we bought the game will bring a lot of hours of fun.
     
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  8. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    I have edited messages to remove inappropriate language.

    Please remember these forums are for users of all ages, and if the bad language continues your messages will be completely removed.
     
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  9. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    A good decision so everyone can be involved , but I have heard from a few people who can’t use the forums because of an age restriction , is there a reason for this ?
     
  10. Pinguinie

    Pinguinie Member

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    Also ich kann nur von mir sprechen,
    bei mir ist es kein "Hass" sondern Enttäuschung.

    Vergleichen ist immer so eine Sache, aber von Größe (Teamstärke) und Möglichkeit kann man es in dem Fall schon:

    SCS - DTG

    SCS:
    - Bringt neue DLCs heraus und damit neue Strecken / Fahrzeuge
    - seit Beginn an in Weiterentwicklung der Grundsoftware
    (eine kleine Aufzählung: Anpassung ans originale Wetter (Sonneneinstrahlung), nach dem es on the road vor gemacht hat: Doppeltrailer, nun Konvoy Modus als letztes)
    - keine unnötigen Ankündigungen bevor es nicht ausgetestet wurde
    (Nutzen übrigens User zum Testen der DLCs, aus Foren, der Community, um Fehler zu erkennen)
    --> Veröffentlichen Regelmäßig Beta-Versionen um Fehler zu erkennen
    Was man dazu sagen muss, dass ETS2 / ATS niemals ohne die privaten Multiplayer anbieter soweit gekommen wären.
    ETS2 ist damit bei mir nahezu das einzige Spiel wo ich mir regelmäßig und sehr gerne die Streckenerweiterungen / Maps kaufe.
    - SCS verweigert zwar jegliche Auskunft (anders als DTG) über Erneuerungen, dafür finden diese jedoch statt
    - Navigations-System mit Stimmen
    - Schnellspeicherung / Automatische Speicherung
    (selbst funktionsfähig in der neusten Version 2.41)


    DTG
    - bringt neue DLCs heraus und damit neue Strecken / Fahrzeuge
    --> Lässt DLCs nicht vorher testen (im anderen Thread schrieb ich ja schon, dass es in Zusammenarbeit mit Steam ein leichtes wäre, ein Code mit 2 Wochen Gültigkeit herauszubringen, die gemeldeten Bugs heraus arbeiten --> Veröffentlichen)
    --> DTG macht alles "alleine" (Abgesehen von Partnern von Strecken) und hat keinerlei Interesse an Community-Arbeit
    --> Keinerlei Nennenswerten, spieltechnische Erneuerungen oder Verbesserungen (Angepasst wurden:
    Software (FPS Probleme in TSW 2020 auf Konsolen)
    Wetter, leichte Anpassungen über Jahre hinweg
    Man kann die Züge, die eh keiner sieht, gestalten
    - Keinerlei Monitore seit Jahren eingebaut
    (Man erinnere sich: Vor 15 jahren gab es MSTS und da gab es schon einen Streckenmonitor der Signale, Ereignisse, KM bis zum nächsten Bahnhof, etc. anzeigte) --> in TSW seit jahren Fehlanzeige
    - Navigation (wäre bei TSW2 der Monitor, aber auch die Anzeigen am Bahnhof, die Haltestellenansagen, etc.) fehlen komplett
    (Hierzu schrieb ich schon einen Beitrag die letzten Tage, warum man nicht einfach das Programm FIS2015 oderso nutzt ud von DTG einfach nicht origanale Haltestellenansagen aufnimmt.
    (Ich habs für meinen Stream nun übrigens gemacht, mal Ansagen aufgenommen, die können nun per Chatbefehl abgespielt werden, für User die Lust haben sich aktiv zu beteiligen)
    = Kein Hexenwerk, eine Arbeit von einem Tag, schon hat man es.
    --> Hier würde ich mir im Forum eine Liste aller Haltestellen wünschen, pro Strecke von DTG
    --> Editor zum Streckenbau fehlt komplett, bzw. gibt es dazu keinerlei Hilfestellungen (PDF in verschiedenen Sprachen etc.)
    --> DTG versucht alles, was eine Erneuerung wäre, aufzuschieben, weil "anderes wichtiger" wäre
    --> Timetable, übernommene Idee von TML Studios (TheBus), keine eigene Idee, bringt zwar mehr Bahnen, hoffentlich, auf die Strecken, obs aber am Ende wirklich mal eine der größeren Erneuerungen wahrgenommen wird?
    = Es bedeutet nicht, dass das, was DTG umsetzt, nun "schlehcht" oder "unnötig" seie, jedoch sieht man für DTG keinerlei Zukunftspläne.
    Mir erscheint es so, dass der einzige Plan ist, Geld zu verdienen, was ja leider klappt, ohne sich etwas neues auszudenken.

    Ich glaube auch das neue Overlay, wo man besser Informationen sehen können soll, ist eher ein "Fake".
    ich persönlich würde es immer noch lieber, und realistischer, im Bordmonitor des Zuges sehen wollen, als Streckenmonitor. Dann könne man sich den gesamten Overlay ausschalten und hätte ein beseres Fahrgefühl als sich nun ein Overlay anzuschauen.

    Aporpro Fahrgefühl
    - Wird sich DTG irgendwann mal ans Speichern heran wagen, Savegames die auch Funktionieren? Ein Thema seit Jahren.
    jedes Mal muss man mitten in Aufnahmen ESCC drücken (das spiel utnerbrechen), drei Mal auf Speichern und dann weiter.
    Extremst nervig und es ist, wie es scheint, immer noch kein besserer Lösungsweg (Schnelltaste) oder automatisches Speichern (anklickbar ob alle 5, 10, 15 Minuten) sinnvoll eingebaut.
    Und wenn man dann speichert, kommen schonmal Bugs vor, die das Problem gleich mitgespeichert haben.

    Das sind so die ersten Dinge, die mir so spontan einfallen, warum man nicht sauer auf DTG ist, sondern enttäuscht.
    Ich hatte ja schon oft geschrieben, dass DTG einfach falsche Prioritäten setzt um mal als Innovativ zu gelten.


    ------------


    So I can only speak of myself for me it's not "hate" but disappointment. Comparing is always such a thing, but in terms of size (team strength) and possibilities you can do it in this case:

    SCS - DTG


    SCS:
    - Brings out new DLCs and thus new tracks / vehicles
    - since the beginning in the further development of the basic software (A small list: Adaptation to the original weather (solar radiation), after which it was done on the road before: double trailer, now convoy mode as the last)
    - no unnecessary announcements before it has been tested (Incidentally, use users to test the DLC, from forums, the community to identify errors)
    -> Regularly publish beta versions to detect bugs What has to be said that ETS2 / ATS would never have come this far without the private multiplayer providers. ETS2 is almost the only game for me where I regularly and very happily buy route extensions / maps.
    - SCS refuses any information (unlike DTG) about renewals, but these take place
    - Navigation system with voices - Quick save / automatic save (even functional in the latest version 2.41)

    Es geht nicht darum, dass das, was DTG macht, schlecht ist, es geht eher darum, dass DTG keinerlei Verständnis in laufe der Jahre für Community-Arbeit entwickelte.
    Man nehme mal die neusten Spiele die demnächst kommen:

    Bus Simulator 21 --> Bekommt ein riesiges PDF Dokument, dass die Programme nochmal genauer erklärt und damit ein Map-Bau erleichtert bzw. ermöglicht

    TheBus - Bekommt ein riesiges PDF Dokument, dass sowohl Fahrzeugbau als auch Map-Bau


    Es ist halt sehr, sehr, sehr "old fahsion" was DTG im Jahre 2021 macht.
    keinerlei Einbindung der Hilfe von Communitymitgliedern, keinerlei Interesse mal Ideen zu kommentiere (siehe meine Idee zum Thema Guide im Forum, wie man ein interesseres (außer Tutorials) Hilfesystem gestalten könnte --> keinerlei Interesse von DTG

    DTG sagte im Stream, wenn ihr Ideen habt, dann schreibt sie uns. Vor 3-4 Wochen? Ich schrieb, und keinerlei Rückmeldung. DTG ist eben in keinen einzigen Beitrag auf irgendetwas eingegangen, die Community schreibt und schreibt und schreibt - und DTG "Ist uns doch egal"

    Es geht übrigens nicht darum, ob es am Ende umgesetzt wird, sondern um eine fehlende Wertschätzung einer Community.

    "Man lässt die Leute gegen geschlossene Zugtüren rennen, fähr dann ab und wundert sich am ende, warum keiner mitfahren möchte."

    ich glaube das ist so die beste Zusammenfassung die mir einfällt.


    DTG
    - brings out new DLCs and thus new routes / vehicles
    -> Does not let DLCs be tested beforehand (in the other thread I already wrote that it would be easy in cooperation with Steam to bring out a code with 2 weeks validity, work out the reported bugs -> publish)
    -> DTG does everything "alone" (apart from partners of routes) and has no interest in community work
    -> No noteworthy, game-technical innovations or improvements (were adjusted: Software (FPS problems in TSW 2020 on consoles) Weather, slight adjustments over the years You can design the features that nobody sees anyway
    - No monitors installed for years (Remember: 15 years ago there was MSTS and there was already a route monitor that displayed signals, events, KM to the next train station, etc.)
    -> In TSW for years there was no report - Navigation (would be the monitor with TSW2, but also the displays at the train station, the stop announcements, etc.) are completely missing (I already wrote a post about this the last few days, why you don't just use the FIS2015 program or something else and simply don't record original stop announcements from DTG. (By the way, I did it for my stream, recorded announcements, which can now be played via chat command, for users who want to actively participate)
    = No rocket science, a day's work, you have it.
    -> Here I would like a list of all stops in the forum, per route from DTG
    -> Editor for route construction is completely missing, or there is no assistance whatsoever (PDF in different languages etc.)
    -> DTG tries to postpone everything that would be a renewal because "other things would be more important"
    -> Timetable, idea taken over from TML Studios (TheBus), no idea of your own, will bring more trains, hopefully, onto the routes, but will one of the bigger innovations really be noticed in the end?
    = It does not mean that what DTG implements is now "bad" or "unnecessary", but one sees no future plans for DTG. It seems to me that the only plan is to make money, which unfortunately works without thinking of anything new.

    I also think the new overlay, where you should be able to see information better, is more of a "fake". Personally, I would still prefer to see it more realistically on the train's on-board monitor than on the route monitor. Then you can turn off the entire overlay and have a better driving experience than looking at an overlay now.

    Aporpro driving experience - Will DTG ever dare to save, savegames that also work? An issue for years. every time you have to press ESCC in the middle of recordings (interrupt the game), three times on save and then continue. Extremely annoying and, it seems, there is still no better solution (hotkey) or automatic saving (clickable whether every 5, 10, 15 minutes) built in.
    And when you then save, bugs occur that have saved the problem at the same time.

    Those are the first things that come to my mind so spontaneously, why one is not angry with DTG, but disappointed. I had already written many times that DTG simply sets the wrong priorities in order to be considered innovative.


    The point is not that what DTG does is bad, it is more about the fact that DTG has not developed any understanding of community work over the years. Take the latest games that are coming soon:

    Bus Simulator 21 -> Receives a huge PDF document that explains the programs in more detail and thus facilitates or enables map construction

    TheBus - Receives a huge PDF document that both vehicle construction and map construction It's just very, very, very "old fahsion" what DTG is doing in 2021.
    (German, English, Turkish etc.)

    No involvement of help from community members, no interest in commenting on ideas (see my idea on the topic of guides in the forum, how one could design an interesting (except tutorials) help system -> no interest from DTG

    DTG said in the stream, if you have ideas, please write us. 3-4 weeks ago? I wrote, and no feedback whatsoever. DTG didn't go into anything in a single post, the community writes and writes and writes - and DTG "We don't care"

    Incidentally, it's not about whether it will be implemented in the end, but about a lack of appreciation by a community.


    "You let people run against closed train doors, then drive away and at the end wonder why nobody wants to go with you."

    I think that's the best summary I can think of.
     
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  11. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    If you are referring to the current situation (which by the timing of this I presume you are), it's not really the price rise itself, ite because it's at the same time as content being cut out of the framework.

    And there isn't much hate - just massive disappointment, we all want TSW to be the best it can be, and tap into it's potential.
     
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  12. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it's hate so much. Of course, there will be a few who portray hatred through the way they write on here. For me, it's more of a frustration. In general, I love the game and many people do. I think that's the reason people feel passionately about it
     
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  13. Hidden Donkey

    Hidden Donkey Active Member

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    compleytly agree
     
  14. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think most people are just annoyed and frustrated, particularly at the perfect storm created by an price increase and a reduction in content. For most commentators it is due to the fact that they are passionate about the sim that they are so vocal.

    You do have the handful of usual suspects for whom DTG cannot do anything correctly and this situation is like a red rag to a bull for them, but they will always find something to be embittered about.
     
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  15. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    the recent announcement was just another trigger. The overall issue is how unresponsive everything is. Just look through the technical forums, how many errors, mistakes and bugs have been found, and a good handful of them directly affecting playability and function/enjoyment of content.
    Does the term "freight exchange" ring a bell? It is almost a year now that this issue exists and it renders a scenario completely unplayable. And there are so many instances where you immediately see that they were cutting corners. Adding to this the communication disasters, in which they make suttle changes to marketed material that has been public.
    Like the cut down on Oakville. which from one to another day it appeared as if it was never planned to be more with the manual's sudden change, and the cutting away of the branch lines recently, where the changes were hidden in a faq section and changed on steam store and their own Rush hour feature page, instead of adding this fact to the immediate description within the feature page on Wednesday.
    I won't accuse anyone of something here but to me this feels shady.

    Combine all of this and it should be no wonder why people are losing their trust in the company. I myself have given them the benefit of the doubt for months now, but by now there is too much that has added up and I don't see me getting my trust in DTG reinstated, quite frankly.

    edit: I will however also say that the community has pushed them into a weird spot as well, where with each roadmap stream people commented that they were expecting more information and more dlc announcements, while at the same time it has become apparent, that when they do please these people and announce their dlc ideas too soon, things go wrong and they can't hold what they soooomewhat promised.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  16. taylormade#6721

    taylormade#6721 Active Member

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    This is not hate on the company itself. It's more hate+criticism on what DTG can do better. I agree though some of the decisions they made were not the best, but don't forget, quality>quantity.

    Now the DLCs from them and third party developers recently have not rolled out the best. It's fair to say that DTG could do better, but it's important to realise that they are doing their best. The TSW community is large, and there are only 24 hours in a day to address as much as they can, and I'm sure the people there are working hard to make us happy. All the while dealing with the feedback, tech reports, upcoming DLCs, and fixes.

    With how Rush Hour rolled out, they did cut out one branch for Riesa-Dresden (a recent update along with London Commuter introduced the Meissen branch) and they did change a few other things. Even when DTG announced Rush Hour, they said it was too early for them to, and they announced it before the scope of the project was fully explored. However, here's the reason why they had to announce it then and there: there was some form of leak of the TSW2: Rush Hour page on Dovetail Live. DTG had no control of this, and since many of us had already seen it, they knew that they had to announce it. The fixes, I'm sure DTG are currently figuring things out.

    It's okay to be frustrated, and honestly, I was too. But complaining all the time won't change anything, and I know there are only a select number of people that do so. Instead, we give constructive criticism in the form of glitches, bugs, and crashes so that DTG know what's wrong. Complaining about DTG only makes the situation worse, so let's give them constructive criticism on what they can do better so that TSW2 can really reach it's full potential!
     
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  17. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Why the hate on the critics? If you don't wanna read, don't read it.
     
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  18. taylormade#6721

    taylormade#6721 Active Member

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    Oh I ain't putting any hate on the critics at all. I'm just saying that it's ok to be frustrated and voice your opinion, but it's important not to take it too far that's all.
     
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  19. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I understand what your saying, I was just highlighting the paradox in what you said :)
     
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  20. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    My questions is why bring back a 3 month old thread when the first page are threads as follows;

    90% disappointment
    5% genuine questions
    4% pointless polls
    1% praise where some folk are enjoying the game
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021 at 11:53 AM
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  21. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I don’t hate DTG. I am annoyed because I know it can do better - it has demonstrated this before.
     
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  22. phillipa#1949

    phillipa#1949 Member

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    [QUOTE = "HeuF, post: 341752, member: 19517"] I don't understand why so many people hate DTG. If I don't like something, I don't buy it. I love TSW and I am willing to pay a few bucks for it. After all, the developers also have to eat. Keep it up DTG !! [/ QUOTE] IT,s More Anger & Frustration over Hate that BML has gone down the pan in less than week with not much communication from them over whats being done about it or any form of Apology from them its slowly turning into hate what, you fail to take into account this is the second LOVE-up they have made with-in two months
     
  23. phillipa#1949

    phillipa#1949 Member

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    [QUOTE = "lukereynolds1, post: 342155, member: 17975"] I don't know if it's hate so much. Of course, there will be a few who portray hatred through the way they write on here. For me, it's more of a frustration. In general, I love the game and many people do. I think that's the reason people feel passionately about it [/ QUOTE] Anger & FRUSTRATIONS tend to over boil more so when we £ 25 per route add-on but on the whole it a very enjoyable game when it works. there no room for hate though DTG are just as Frustrated as we are believe or not
     
  24. cmadonna1998

    cmadonna1998 Member

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    I don't hate DTG or TSW2 or anyone working for them. However, I disagree with the "I don't like something, I don't buy it." Rush hour season ticket was the first DLC I bought for TSW2. I also was not involved on the forum until about a month ago. How was I to know that I would get routes plagued with issues? That statement sounds like you are blaming the consumer for being disappointed in an underperforming DLC. Moving forward I now know to avoid DLC purchases until I come to the forum and read how they perform. But it is not too much for me to expect the routes I have purchased to be in a fully functional state.
     
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  25. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    you are replying to a comment the OP made some months ago before rush hour was out?

    however take it as this. The issues and disappointment have been around for a while, long before rush job/hour

    Welcome to the forum though :)

    Both Time and money are precious these days, always check for feedback on new routes and locos. There will always be good/bad/constructive feedback floating around from day one.
     
  26. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, it was only a couple of days early when it was accidentally posted. It was hardly like we'd leaked pre-alpha material.
     
  27. cmadonna1998

    cmadonna1998 Member

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    I realized it was an old thread but it had been brought back to life by someone else and appeared at the top of my feed. I thought it might be relevant to reply in light of the recent issues. I definitely will be perusing the forums before I buy anymore DLC. Live and learn I guess.
     
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  28. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    What people hate is the strategic decisions taken by DTG. Don’t confuse this with DTG in general and TSW as a product.
     
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  29. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Active Member

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    We don't hate the game. Quite the opposite. Tsw2 has so much potential, however DTG continue to release dlc with bugs. Some of which are very serious and could have been picked up with basic testing. Most folks have been very patient, however nothing has changed and all patience has been lost. Myself included. DTG just do not seem to care. We've spent alot of money compared to other games, and for what? Broken, bugged content. It gets worse with every new dlc. We are fed up with all the excuses. Enough is enough. DTG have had more than enough time to get themselves together and fix things, but they just make excuses.! DTG just see us as cash cows at this point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021 at 2:00 AM
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