Will More Dutch Routes Come In The Future, Or Will It Be Just Like France

I prefer them to make routes they can pull off. It's the first time in months I finished services because nothing annoyed me. That is remarkable for DTG on a day one purchase. I had come to think of TSW as a game where you have to wait months before what you paid for is actually playable. This time they managed to release a route without all the same problems you see with almost every release.

If easy and cheap delivers routes like Zwolle - Groningen I prefer the cheap and easy ones over the complicated and expensive ones any time.

 

It's hard to say whether DTG would make more dutch routes in future: DTG made the first Austrian route back in TSW4, and we later saw the second and the third Austrian route, however LGV Méditerranée remains the only French route in TSW, and we never saw any Canadian route since TSW2020. If DTG realize making dutch routes is profitable, we may expect more dutch route in future, but if ZGN is not as profitable as DTG anticipated or DTG lost the license of NS, ZGN would the first and maybe the last dutch route in TSW, just like LGV Méditerranée or CN Oakville Subdivision.

If DTG decide to make more dutch routes in future, both ICMm Koploper and SNG Sprinter can be repurposed or incorporated as additional layers for future products since they operate services on multiple dutch routes. It would be better if they can make new locos for future routes.

NS SLT maybe a good choice, since someone had already made it in TSC.
Or they can the famous VIRM, also already existed in TSC

 

And of course we have seen this enthusiasm from the senior management before for new content in the game, only to see it wither and die.
Spirit Of Steam and Peak Forest were both heralded as the start of steam traction for TSW, except it got left in an awful state with DTG going back on their word and vowing to do no more.

US freight, now seems dead and buried not even going retro.

The Class 700 - never got a route to run at full potential.

So I just hope the ardour for NS and the Dutch scene doesn't cool off in a similar manner. One issue I can foresee with going to cities like Rotterdam and Amsterdam is their aversion to sub surface stations such as I believe is found at Schipol?

 

Toe in water I'd say. Sales need to be huge. Even BR doesn't sell so will a Dutch route? Ideally everywhere should get more content. The reality is though like France it will need to shift volume?

 

This " We'll build more Dutch routes if enough people buy Zwolle- Groningen " is more than a little unfair, in my opinion.

The route, however well made, is still a fairly routine, provincial run and will not appeal to everyone, even if they're Dutch.

I still think a better test of popularity would have been a route involving Amsterdam and Rotterdam.

If that was equally well made but didn't sell, you could then excuse DTG for ignoring Netherlands railways..

But to hold future Dutch routes hostage to a toe-dipping, rural route, akin to ECML, is unreasonable.

 

But is Amsterdam - Rotterdam even possible? I mean: Is it possible in a decent fashion and not the jittery experience we get most of the time with busy routes?

 

Any route will suffer from the lack of optimization of the core, particularly congested ones.

It's up to DTG to to solve those problems. The game can't survive on a diet of straight, flat semi- rural routes.

 

It's only less than 24 hours into release, and its steam review count is already on par with WCMLOS. I guess sale figures would look very good.

 

I suggest slowly working to connect these 2 routes.. through Belgium ofcoarse

 

I understand it's out of the momentary scope of the devs and this thread, but yeah Belgium would be sweet, although what I'd love to see specifically is Liège Hbf of course =p. It's also far from the most unique or DLC-customer-attracting piece of stock but I kinda like their non-Vectron as well lol.

Ideally I'd loove an Aachen-Bruxelles DLC.

 

Cross border from Amsterdam or Rotterdam to Antwerp could be interesting.

 

Yup Belgium would be great as it has a lot of international traffic. Dutch trains, ICE, LGV, Eurostar.

 

I would rather see Utrecht - Zwolle with the small lines to Utrecht Malibaan and maybe Baarn (if possible from the side of Den Dolder and from Amersfoort Centraal for the 5800) so you dont have 20km between stops for the stopping services. Then adding the SLT and DDZ or VIRM would fit perfectly and can be added to this route as well.

 

Utrecht - Zwolle doesn't have the most interesting scenery though. It's a lot of forest. Admittedly there's several small towns dotted across the line, and a major hub at Amersfoort. But between those stations, trees, trees and more trees.

Den Dolder - Baarn (or Utrecht - Baarn) would be a cute line, even though it only sees stopping services. Quite a few single track sections too.

Amersfoort - Baarn would make little sense. At least extend it to Hilversum.

Utrecht Centraal - Utrecht Maliebaan would be a nice little branch line with unique operations.

I guess one could do a Utrecht - Amersfoort - Hilversum triangle network. Several short runs.

 

I understood Matt's post to mean that he wanted community feedback on what the route did well and not well so that they could build on that for the next route. I don't think he mentioned sales figures.

 

As I mentioned in the main feedback thread, I think the only drawback with this route, could be repetition - once you've done the A to B (or B to A) run a few times with both trains. I mean you could say that to some extent about most TSW routes, or for that matter other sims as well (despite the length, I always seem to end up passing through Zawierce every time I play Simrail) but it's hitting the sweet spot for variety. Given the dense nature of the Dutch railways, maybe next time a network (but somewhat better conceived and executed than Cardiff) or triangle of lines. More routes will bring in more train types, maybe even some loco hauled or vintage units which will increase the gameplay scope.

 

It is only the hostile people that will speak up usually.

While this route, and wcml over shap aren't really my favorite kind of routes, they both nailed it and i am enjoying them.
My main concern is the same as OldVern : repitivity on an A to B route, but that is just preference.

nonetheless you nailed this one
Thank you Matt!

 

This is one good topic and by the way in the future they should try to make a new Dutch route and throughinternational one to Germany like them well-known Hengelo Bad Bentheim Osnabrück Hbf because that Corridor has trains back in the 1980s towards Hamburg and Puttgarden Vogelfluglinie Bahnstrecke Hamburg Lübeck Puttgarden Rødby Copenhagen. The international Part requires a train Ferry and shunting using the existing 363/365s.

 

I take a part of that route every day and i admit theres much forest but its not all and you still have some intresting parts. Also hiding things like the dinopark from the zoo in the forest in Amersfoort would be funny too.

And what you said about extending it to Hilversum, it would be a cool idea to drive the IC Berlin from there to Amersfoort Centraal even tho it is not that long.

There are lots of opportunity's to make driveable services. So then you would have the 500, 600, 1500, 1700, 1800, 5500, 5600, 5700 (for 2 stops but still), 5800, 28300 and the international and cargo ones.

Personally i like the 5600 line since you have sometimes a little longer (like Harderwijk - Nunspeet) and shorter distances (like the Amersfoort stations) between stations but not that you drive for 20 min between stations on a stopping service as Zwolle Groningen.

 

Probably too much for the route builders but looking at my old Thomas Cook European timetable you could have an interesting Rotterdam - Amsterdam - Utrecht - Den Haag quadrangle route.

 

I'm not familiar with Rottedam - Amsterdam or Utrecht - Den Haag, but I find the section between Amsterdam and Utrecht to be extremely boring. It's a straight 4 track railroad almost all the way, kinda like GWE but even straighter. I don't think that makes a particular interesting drive.

 

I prefer longer drives, so I rather see 100km in a single A to B route than a 100km network broken up in shorter services. Although admittedly, and I think many of the Dutch community have already said this before, Zwolle - Groningen isn't the most interesting of Dutch routes. It's located in one of the least populated areas of the country. There's routes that could offer a greater variety in scenery as well as services, while still being an A to B route. Something that could offer intercity and sprinter services, as well as international services and freight traffic.

 

I think Zwolle - Utrecht would be a great next route to be honest. It's pretty long, but includes a nice mix of traffic and the beautiful Veluwe nature area. It can re-use the SNG for sprinter services and would require the DDZ double-decker for Intercity purposes.

 

Are there any interesting diesel operated routes or is it mainly just branch lines?

 

As far as I know, all diesel routes are branch lines operated by other operators. I don't think NS still operates any diesel trains nowadays.

EDIT: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandse_Spoorwegen#Materieel has a list of NS stock currently in use. All electric.

EDIT 2: Most recent NS DMU was taken out of service in 2017. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieselmaterieel_'90

 

For me as a Dutchman the game has entered a completely new dimension, everything is so recognisable. And it runs so great on my midrange PC. A new lease of life!

Hoping for loc DLC now, for example the DDZ.

 

Any route involving Utrecht would be a frame rate killer, but I'd love to see it!

 

Including a new country into TSW is an ambiguous thing.

I fully understand and appreciate the excitement about a Dutch route (or, as it was, the French TGV route). Thing is, though, the game lives off compounding content. The more DLCs there are for a given country which layer onto routes and interact, the better.

For Dutch routes to be really packed in future, it would definitely need more locos. There are great ones, like the DD-IRM and the 1600). I am not sure, though, whether DTG is willing to go down that route.

For a country like Austria, things are still relatively easy, because you can layer some German stuff onto it and vice versa. We will have to see whether that works for the Netherlands, with the Vectron and possibly loco-hauled international IC services in the future.

 

Almost a parallel with what I wrote in the 9F steam loco thread earlier. To do a route justice it needs to be packed with many different types of loco/multiple unit and rolling stock. It could take four or five more Dutch routes to get into the situation we enjoy with the German and to some extent the UK routes, well certainly the BR Classic Blue era. Even then, there are still gaps.

 

I really don't understand. Several routes are a lo long, up and down, few stations and I do not hear this type of complaint. People say they love them. I agree I do not like it a lot, but many players seem to like it. One thing I learned is that any individual opinion is a bad predictor for overall community behaviour.

 

From the preview steam I thought the Dutch route looked rather boring, long stretches of country side and similar looking scenery. I know the selling point was the locos though and at least you get a good run in the Cobber.
That being said I still hope this route sells well, as more content from new countries in the game the better.

 

Well with Focus now as the publisher they should go back and try again.

 

I think he meant 100 km stretch with only 8 stations and a lot of rather bland peering across mostly empty fields, and I agree. Not much replay ability.
TGV had only one type of train.

 

Purno Utrecht-Arnhem? Maybe extending it to German border!
You'd have the ICE 3Neo there!

 

And is all the worse for it. Marseilles is a ghost town.

 

Not familiar with that route. Can't judge if it'd make an interesting route. Personally I'd have a route in the Randstad region.

Also, not to hyped about the ICE 3Neo. That's a German train, not a Dutch one. And we already have a fair amount of ICE trains in the game.

 

This is my biggest concern, once you've been back and forward a few times no matter how good the route is, it will become one to get dusted off now and again. A useful one if we get the mega mileage challenge in the monthly mastery again.

Ironically, of the recent release, the Dutch route could have done with being the network and Cardiff a more linear long distance route. Purely IMHO, of course.

 

I think the route is very well made and it's nice to see some country specific architecture in the route, nailed that one imo more please. I love the Koploper too. A Mat54 would be uber cool too, I'd love to see stock packs in the future.

Yeah Vern the Cardiff route should have included Bridgend and Newport

 

Any route gets boring if you only drive that route, even a network. I don't know how other people enjoy their collection, but I often switch between routes anyways. Even while 'focusing' on completing a Journey Mode, I often focus on 2 or 3 routes to give me a some variation. I did that too when working on the Cathcart journey mode, even though it's a network, it got quite repetitive very quickly.

I don't think you'd be able to find a realistic network of Dutch routes that'd allow some decent length runs on the ICMm intercity train. But I'm no expert on the Dutch rail network.

 

I did had an Idea for Belgium route Brussels North to Ostend be cool one to do

 

it is going to get old very quickly I’m afraid.
yes it’s slightly frustrating to see this long empty route when we had a scrunched up WCMLS where the Pendo couldn’t stretch her legs. It seems to me with the exception of JT we have the wrong devs developing UK routes

 

Opportunity missed.

 

AIUI, the TGV was all SNCF was willing to license

 

I think the price is fair for the long route as new country and 2 new trains.

But something tells me the second dutch route will be rushed out like ludwigsbahn or cardiff.

 

like I said with a French company in charge go back and try again. The situation has changed.

 

I doubt the parent company being French will change it. Possible, but I doubt it.
Look at LNWR, or FTPE, any of the Arriva TOCs, FGW/GWR, Virgin.

 

Given the ICM is a unit with a long heritage, I'd love to see them do a second Dutch route in the 1990s with the units featuring their gangways and the classic Mat 64, possibly including loco hauled freight and passenger stock too.

 

I certainly hope we get more Dutch routes... apart from that relatively minor issue with why ICM and SNG dont gain speed when going down 0.7% gradient and require quite some power to not lose speed on flat portions, it is a damn good route

I certainly hope we get more, I enjoy ATB and trackside stuff quite a lot, very easy and convenient to read

apart from aforementioned minor issue, which just feels a bit weird but might be realistic (I dont know the supertechnical specifics of Dutch trains, so cant tell; but had similar issue on 442 version of Koln Aachen which sometimes even on 1.0% descent barely gained any speed on zero), it is a very solid piece of content, certainly hope we get more and I will be looking forward to it in similar fashion as I do when Austrian or German stuff gets announced and released

this one looks so GOOD

 

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