Will Train Sim World Ever Expand?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by dreampage, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    We’ve already seen from multiple third parties that it isn’t as easy as DTG make it out to be to get involved in their partner scheme, and we’ve also seen how much of a percentage of the sale is lost to store platforms and DTG.

    Then consider that any new studio will have to take the time to get to grips with making content within TSW, aswell as the fact that they face a potential drop in sales caused by taking less time on TS development.

    Also, it’s not like an entire market of people will migrate to TSW for one Dutch Route, you’d have to have a good collection of routes for a Dutch fan base to consider buying TSW and then it’s DLC, there are a lot of reasons that people still play TS over TSW, and one of those reasons is the size of their DLC collection.

    I’d imagine that the niche devs and niche fan base is happy with what they have right now, there’s not really any real reason for anyone to come over to TSW if all they would want is Dutch content.

    Personally I’d be interested in a Dutch Route, but then who’s to say I’d be interested in another after that? That’s going to be a real concern for a small developer who has to balance where their time is spent.
     
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  2. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it, TSW should be rebranded. If anything Train Simulator deserves "world" in its title (despite mainly covering US and Western Europe). Train Sim World should no longer be called such. I propose they change next year's version name to "Three Country Train Sim."
    Oh well, nothing we can do here on the forum. I will have to just enjoy what we do have. I am just not purchasing DLC as I frequently as I used to. I will bail the second another company arrives and provides the variety I so crave. :)
     
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  3. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Western Europe? That's giving TSW way too much credit. It's mainly UK and Germany. The majority of Western European countries aren't represented in TSW.
     
  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They're talking about Train Simulator (TSC), not TSW
     
  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just a note that Canada and France are also in game right now, as well as Arosa Linie via third party, so that's six countries even if half of those only have one line
     
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  6. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Also Scotland, though that's like Canada is to the US. Different country, but very similar to feel.
     
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  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Some would count Scotland as a different country, but given it's under the same national rail structure as England and Wales I don't in this instance.
     
  8. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'd consider Scotland as part of the UK, but if you count Scotland as a seperate country, then I guess the UK isn't as united as the name would suggest :P
     
  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    UK refers to the royals (hence kingdom), Scotland has it's own parliament and some control over the railways that operate there (as in they choose service schedules and franchise owners) but the rail system itself is governed centrally (so railtrack etc etc)
    So for me, Scotland doesn't have it's own railway system any more than Wales or Cornwall do (though I'm sure both would love to discard anything to do with England, or maybe just Boris specifically)
     
  10. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well i tought that Scots said no to independance... Anyway while I like routes in Scotland in TS, i can barley say it's any different from England, of course part of liveries, landscapes...
    Still i would vote for any Scottish route in TSW (as long Rivet dont do it...;))

    .. And as some work hase already be done i would like to see more France, why not a French riviera departing from Marseille to Toulon, they already have part of assets needed.

    Or something more exotic.. We need moar DLCs...:cool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  11. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Because LGV Marseille - Avignon doesn't count as a French route but as a High Speed Route, according to TrainSim-Matt 's logic.
     
  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think there is an outside chance we might see an Irish route at some stage, as apart from the track gauge operations and signalling are very similar to the UK. The downside to Ireland is that unless you set it historically, the majority of services are now handled by DMU's and there isn't much freight. Outside the main Inter City routes, services are very sparse - even to places like Galway - so limited scope for complex timetables.
     
  13. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Would Ireland really offer something different than we already have seen? I know little about Ireland, but from what I understand, especially the railroad business, it's all very similar to the UK. I know it's technically a new country, but so are Canada and the US...
     
  14. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested in a normal french route. Even in another TGV route as well, as long as it's the older orange stock. The new one doesn't seem that interesting to me.
     
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  15. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'd love a French route, as long as it isn't a dedicated high speed one trick pony like Marseille-Avignon. Even though I'm a huge supporter of new countries, I didn't buy Marseille-Avignon because it's a one trick pony.

    I think Arosa is the only DLC I bought without a discount. It featured something different and unique.
     
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  16. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    That why i pointed to Marseille Toulon. Its a normal route that see passengers and some freight and beautifil provençal scapes. And the TGV from Marseille would layer wel (as they continue from Marseille to Nice but on a slow parce, inserted in normal traffic)
     
  17. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Ireland is a different track gauge and locos are predominately US rather than UK for politician reasons. NI do use UK built and share similarities to UK.

    A Dublin Belfast Enterprise train would be nice a GM loco hauling effectively Eurostar coaches with a generator car as well.
     
  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well then that logic makes no sense because it's literally a french route
     
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  19. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention the first gen diesels CIE bought from UK builders were pretty unreliable and useless! The “A” Class the original 001 series were rebuilt with GM prime movers to improve reliability. However CIE procured a fair amount of rolling stock from the UK. The Mk2 D coaches and later Mk3’s with the latter having plug doors rather than slam doors were built by BREL. Not sure if the earlier Park Royal and Cravens coaches were built locally or constructed in the UK and shipped across.
     
  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    To make a route in a new country would mean making new scenery, houses, buildings, roads, maybe cars, trees etc etc
    For example the south of Spain is basically a terracotta landscape so having green rolling hills would make little sense

    You then have the trains to build, the signalling etc etc

    So when Matt says they don't want to "just build one", he means that to make commercial sense they need to build five or ten routes with similar assets for the whole cost of making the assets in the first place to become sensible.

    As an example, if it takes two hours to make a house and you use it in one route then the cost is two hours (120 mins). If you use that house in five routes then the cost remains two hours, but now spread five ways, so 120/5 = 24mins. Ten routes? 12mins
    (and yes they do have a catalogue of buildings they use, even if they use them again and again to the point of them becomming all the same. There are also generic buildings built into the UE asset catalogue)

    So the economics of making a whole new country and being able to roll out routes using similar (or the same) systems decreases the cost per route of making those systems (and thus the cost per route overall)

    So... For DTG to make financial sense of making any particular country's rail system they want to have some certainty that those routes will sell well enough to sell well, thus enabling DTG to make more routes, and more routes, and more routes based on those same assets etc
     
  22. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    ARuscoe that's just one of the reasons Matt gave in the roadmap stream. And the one that makes most sense. But if that's the sole reason, then where's our 2nd French route, considering several French assets were already created? Yet DTG has no plans to create another French route.

    And then there were several other reasons Matt gave, but none of them make much sense to me.
     
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  23. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Another reason Matt gave was probably a big one it comes down to being able to obtaining the license.
     
  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    This excuse is really silly, because while it's true, well... you have to start somewhere. TSW also started with just one route with entirely newly made assets, yet it was worth it financially and look where the game is now. And after the first route is done with assets, you can do another route in the future and half of the assets will already be made.

    And expanding the available countries in the game would also increase the number of potential customers, so in the end, it would be worth it. And I mean, if small third party teams can do other countries even despite the difficulties, then surely the main devs themselves would also be capable to.
     
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  25. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    ÖBB, NS, SNCF, SBB logos are all present in Train Simulator.

    Although licenses may sometimes be a challenge, I'm not convinced they cannot obtain any license from any country other than US/UK/DE. There's a WHOLE LOT of train operators out there.
     
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  26. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    That's leaving us with very empty railway networks in some cases, Cathcart Circle is a prime example. Brighton London gets away with it as the electrostars are across the board. It's almost a trade off really. More realistic trains but railways with no other trains meaning less realism on the operational front. I find myself going back to MSTS content under open rails for that reason. I have a lot of BR era TS content too but the game engine ruins the experience
     
  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Which leaves me with two "belief streams", the first is that they created that route with the sole intention of it being an easy high speed route to make because it goes from almost somewhere (Marseille) to basically somewhere in the middle of nowhere, so although the terrain may be undulating and challenging, the making of route boiled down to some hills and one city at one end. If they did other routes they might end up with more complex scenery to make, and at 300km/h you need more scenery to fill an hour's drive than you do at 35 or 50 average

    The other thought is that the route didn't sell very much compared to other routes (like Brighton) or nobody really shouts out for some other french regional route that nobody bar the locals have heard of
     
  28. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    What is a community manager even do nowadays? I feel that one of the roles should be scouting for talents and making use of them.

    I see too many people banging their heads to pull 5 ropes at once to get things done on their own. This is not always the best approach. Usually knowing where the resources are and asking for assistance or delegating can lead to even better results than fighting mountains alone.

    I'm saying this because it feels like DTG is waiting on community members, local developers, and others to knock on their doors. Why not approach them instead? DTG knows who they are. Offer them support to start research and work on assets. It's not like they will take the knowledge and make their own game since they haven't done that to TS plus within the communities of train lovers, there are some of the most candid and dedicated people I have met.

    For DTG this is an investment, a long-term one even.

    It looks like they have started using some of these resources in the recent past but it's such a small portion of what's out there going to waste.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I read your post in that thread and I do remember watching that stream and honestly Matt's reasoning just didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. First of all let's say DTG were to make another French route for example. The logic from my undstanding is that if they venture to a different country outside the U.K U.S and Germany that less content would be produced for the 3 main countries so to speak. I don't understand that mindset. First of all you don't have to make a route from a different country all the time. DTG could spice things up. I wouldn't mind seeing another French route in tsw2. I didn't get LGV because of how short it was but I am sure there are players would would love a another French route. Now apparently LGV didn't sell well but if that's true I wouldn't be suprised. There's no point in selling a route for $30 in which you can complete services in less than 30 minutes. It gets repetitive and boring quite quickly. Now had the route been much much cheaper, they will probably would've gotten more sales.

    Another reason has to do with assets and research. Whilst understandable it's also kinda silly. You always have to start somewhere with any route. TSW was once a game that had only one route and new assets. Now those assets can be used on many different routes. DTG can make a Japanese route for example and if they were to make the assets for that first Japanese route, you would already have assets for the next one and so forth and thus making content for that region would be less difficult. This reasoning at times just sounds like a cheap excuse. You have players complaning that routes are very similar from one another because they use the exact same or similar trains found on other routes which doesn't add variety and offers a similar gameplay experience. There were already complaints about the upcoming Harlem Line route because of the similarities between the trains from LIRR. Even though they aren't exactly the same trains, I understand why some feel that way.

    Now the only reason why U.S/U.K/DE routes do well is because that's really the only options players really have. Sure that's where most of the sales come from as well but there are probably players from other countries who would love to get into tsw but don't because countries from where they live aren't really represented. The Netherlands probably being a huge example of that.

    Now when I heard that possibly the only ways we can see different countries is from third parties, that on paper seems reasonable, but we all know that it isn't easy for third parties to make content for this game. DTG have taken a hands off approach to what third parties make and I think we all know the result of that. But if third parties are capable of making routes from different countries in the future, why can't DTG?

    So do I think that TSW will ever expand, probably not anytime soon. DTG's stubbornness to expand to new regions won't change anytime soon for reasons that in my opinion are understandable but at the same time also silly. Technology in the video game industry keeps getting better and better and TSW2 is a game that has unlimited potential, but here we are getting routes that don't always reach the full potential it probably could. We probably could've gotten more country variety years ago but here we are with a game that's almost 5 years old with some players feeling like they just keep getting similar content again and again. I am not saying that making routes from the same three countries is necessarily a bad thing, but dtg should give players more variety instead of another route with a big red low floor dostos.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It does make sense, as explained above. The cost of developing assets has to be amortized across the number of routes that use those assets. DTG started TSW with US, German and British assets because they knew they would use them again and again: roughly 10 rotes and counting for each country. Are they really going to make 10 Dutch or Swedish or South African routes? Not hardly.

    LGV is only halfway, because it only uses the special TGV signal system, not the normal French one (and that was re-used for SEHS)
     
  31. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    For some reason, I can't find an example within the software industry so I will use nVidia instead.

    It makes tons of money from its xx60 mainstream series. The rest of the series exist for people outside of the mass with the top model existing only as a flagship to provide the absolute best money can buy and to flex a bit against the competition. So one series funds the others pretty much. I think this is a model DTG can use.

    The problem is that they are doing it wrong, abusing it I might say by placing rolling stock on routes where it isn't normally used and this shouldn't happen.

    While the new countries grow, the core countries provide financial support. Reinvesting the earnings. DTG focuses on core, external parties on localization.

    nVidia is just one example. We can add Apple, Samsung, Canon, Nikon, Volkswaggen and many others.
     
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There are only really two main GPU core manufacturers, both of which ship millions of units every quarter with turnovers in the millions every year
    DTG aren't in any of the leagues of companies you're quoting, so your whole suggestion becomes moot.

    There is no one route or series of routes which would make enough money to carry a whole team of developers for long enough to build a possibly dodgy selling route without any income other than that one other route.
     
  33. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    You are right.

    We are talking now about what DTG isn't and what it doesn't do to see how it can become better.
    None of the companies I've mentioned were born what they are today. Going back to nVidia, I was in high school when they released the first GeForce. Before that, they were trying to compete with 3dfx and their great Voodoo cards. What made them prevail? First of all quality products, top people behind to develop new tech to not only compete but become the leader

    DTG doesn't have to reinvent the wheel but simply use the one that exists, that's it.

    But when from the top level you get responses such as "low entry dostos are the same as high entry dostos" and other gags like this, then you can tell that quality is not on their menu. I watched the recent G6 stream but I couldn't resist for too long. I'm not an expert but I found the level disappointing. The problem is that while watching another stream for Train Life: A Railway Simulator the level there was even worse. They are supposed to talk us into the product, lead by example as they say but maybe I am getting old and too focused on quality in my work which makes me miss the point of streams today.
     
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  34. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Not to be obtuse - but from my reading the G6 is being lauded as the epitome of quality with positive reviews both in these forums and on Steams product page. I was just wondering what you found disappointing in the product? or am I misinterpreting your comment?
     
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  35. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly that LeadCatcher

    They present what is the most well-done add-on for the game with staff that is a bit behind that.
    It's why I mentioned that in other companies who want to enter the niche and make products for train lovers the quality of some of the people involved is just not there.
     
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  36. 2martens

    2martens Active Member

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    I personally like the pure-modern approach to Germany. It will take too long as it is to get the full or almost the full roster of rolling stock into TSW 2 that actually travels in Germany. I'm looking forward to ICE 1, ICE 2, ICE 4, ICE T, IC2, FLIRT (BR 429), Bombardier Twindexx (BR 445/446) - currently running on Main-Spessart-Bahn, BR 474 (Hamburg S-Bahn, third rail and overhead), BR 490 (Hamburg S-Bahn, third rail and overhead), BR 481/482 (Berlin S-Bahn), LINT (BR 623, BR 648), BR 628/629, BR 642, BR 644 (Talent 1) and additionally to those: Dostos with high entry like they operate on Hamburg-Lübeck, as well as BR 218 as an allround diesel engine with many years of service.

    And of course I'd like them not only in the DB livery but also the appropriate tariff union liveries (e.g. nah.sh for Schleswig-Holstein) or operator liveries (e.g. Metronom).
     
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  37. LodeStar

    LodeStar Active Member

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    As long as TS and the stuff from third parties keeps on selling well it will always compete with their own product.

    DTG should invest in 2022, to my opinion, into getting all (...) third parties over to TSW2. Help them with whatever they need and especially don't discourage them to be bold and have them think out of the box. As a result we'll get more countries, approaches and different insights because of that. Broadening the audience and spreading TSW like oil to other train related areas.

    Now DTG has one goose still laying golden eggs (with help from others) and one goose...well which is still limping on its own (with a - little -help from some friends). I would like them to make up their mind what they are going to do in the future. Maybe 'steam' will finally make the trigger for third parties to make the jump?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I perfer modern german routes as well but it be nice to see some variety instead of the same trains again and again. At least the next German route will have a new train finally.
     
  39. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    DTG is waiting for third parties to make the transition to TSW and learn how to use Unreal Engine but when is their own internal TS team going to do what is expected from others to do?

    I wonder if they will go with the approach of naturally phasing out TS or they will decide to force the transition to TSW, both in terms of internal sources as well as commercially.

    It's clear that TSW is not the evolution it is meant to be or it's taking its sweet time to evolve. Every time I look on Steam to see how many people play TS vs TSW is like a 3 to 1 in favor of the first. How do they turn that around? Not by hesitating and making mistakes as we see with pretty much every launch. Not by creating the same routes as on TS but with less content (where even is the evolution here, in the graphics?).

    It appears that they lack the strategy and the two products fight against each other.

    Is TSW actually in early access or beta? Everywhere you look you see unfinished parts, big mistakes that no one knows how to fix (on consoles mainly). It feels like they are learning as they build and that is fine but let us know as maybe some of us don't want to be part of your experiment.

    I have said it before, I am not touching early access games ever. Unfinished products should not be a common thing but the industry made it so that it looks normal for us to finance their project without clear goals and long-term milestones.
     
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  40. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Dont forget that from what i understood PC users are only 1/3rd of all TSW users, that means that more or less TSW2 and TS have identical audience..
    I have however to agree that a lot of people havent switched. I am new to train sims and started with TSW2, but im spending more and more time on TS, just because of the variety of routes avaiable, and their overall lenght.

    As for bêta or early access thing, TSW2 is clearly not in this category, just its buggy, and bugs appear at evry major evolution. Thats not good for reputation of the franchise.. And they are not squizzed rapidly enough...
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  41. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    I think its clear TSW will never be what TS was. Its been almost 5 years and I think what we get now is about the maximum we will ever get.
     
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  42. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Let's not get ridiculous. TS has been out for almost 15 years. Of course TSW will never catch up in content to TS, when TS has been getting content 10 years before TSW and is still getting developed new content to this day.

    While TSW has it's shortcomings, it's a much better base than TS is and has much more potential. It's more immersive, has better simulation and much better gameplay, when it doesn't get ruined by some bug or other issue caused by the content being rushed to release.

    That being said, yeah, I agree that the evolution is a bit slow. But as long as I enjoy the content, it's fine by be. Content that I don't enjoy, I simply don't buy and don't play.
     
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  43. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The best content for TSW will be better than the best content for TS, but unfortunately the general quality for TSW content isn't that good. Sometimes we get absolutely stunning pieces of DLC for TSW - the BR101, the G6, Riesa, NTP... - but when there's DLC like WCL, IoW, SEHS, Hamburg-Lubeck, Arosa and the BR204, trust is lost in the game and the whole thing is brought down. People are much more likely to pay attention to bad content than good content. It's the same in TS, where we have brilliant content like the AP 411, the APT, Woodhead Blue, and the New ICE 3, but the reputation is brought down by bad DLC like Black Forest Journeys, the DTG Class 321 and Class 91, and Cologne Airport. Although I guess AP is safe, because although they can come out with total crap, they'll still be regarded as if Jesus himself started making Train Sim DLC.

    The strange place TSW is in regarding quality and possibilities is actually a bit of an inspiration for myself. When I see good DLC, I think that I'd like to make something that good. And when I see crimes against humanity in the form of TSW DLC, I think I want to make something better. Unfortunately I am currently not in a position to make stuff, and even if I was DTG's third party programme is (or at least appears to be) hard to get into and somewhat toxic. Although, if any DTG staff do see this, I would be more than happy to talk about my project ideas and visions for routes for the future, even if it leads to nothing.
     
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  44. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what's ridiculous?

    Rush hour:
    - It was announced as an all-in-one summer update that was in the end split into individual packs with the first route released mid-August and the last one in early October,
    - Had its price increased,
    - Had rush-hour passengers buggy,
    - There was a cancellation of introducing rush-hour passengers to the base game for commercial reasons and due to bugs,
    - Riesa - Dresden was not released as initially announced and required a patch to reach the projected state.

    Other issues such as:
    - Allowing third parties to produce rolling stock such as the BR 187 with whatever characteristics they have available (wrong sounds and broken PZB in this case),
    - Introducing improved features such as night lighting and then randomly choosing to which other routes to use it in the future instead of having them all benefit from the new technology
    - Delivering the BR 101 without a cab car because... reasons

    It's one thing to make isolated mistakes which we all make and another to be pestered with issues in each release.
     
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  45. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I would have liked a cab car, but would you have preferred a brilliant BR101 (which we got) or a mediocre BR101 with a mediocre cab car? Most of the issues you talk about aren't new, and have affected DTG since the days of Rail Simulator. Please don't make this out as a an issue that only affects TSW, because it absolutely is not.
     
  46. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe that is the case.
    The way I see it is that it is an incomplete product. Why? Because the game claims to be a sim and it needs to deliver as one. If I say I will produce the BR 101 and in reality it's different than my end product then I either get good or give up if I can't get up to the required level.

    They are always trying to justify and normalize their mediocrity so that we get used to it. I'm sorry but I can't. It insults my intelligence every time I hear it.

    Another sign that they are only building content up to an acceptable standard is the fact that they formed a new team to add content and correct issues in the future. Could be in one year could be later.
    Why not increase the resources to get it right from the beginning?
     
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  47. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Third party developers are simply not attracted to TSW2, there was a thread somewhere explaining their reasons from the developers themselves. Saying things like, lack of freedom, lack of tools, lack of profits ETC so DTG are going to continue to hide behind these excuses of theirs.

    If DTG have confidence in their product and get an explosion of new customers they should release the tools for third party devolpers/modders to make the routes on their own. Like TS there would be routes from all over. Yes we will get some sub par ones but we are getting those at the moment anyway no? As the third party Devs themselves said DTG want to much control.

    And if DTG have confidence in themselves to do top quality routes then it will sell and sell to more people. DTG won't do this though as I believe they do not have confidence and want to control their own market. Train games are improving all the time and if one of them did hit the right buttons of TSW2 players then I would see a lot of players jumping ship.

    As for more countries, this will never happen the way things are at the moment. I saw a video where I think DTG made a route for TS in Birmingham ( I think ) but made use of the actual real driver who recorded all the stuff needed. We are told that many real drivers of trains are fans of TS/TSW2 , for passengers and freight, so why aren't DTG making use of this valuable resource and in different countries as well?

    I can understand people in Australia, Netherlands, Japan ETC get tired of the excuses, I used to only buy UK routes and am miffed (GWE) at DTG. There always seems to be problems and never solutions. And DTG if covid is such a huge problem as you say it is why don't you concentrate a bit more in fixing/updating the stuff you already have ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  48. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well the DB BR 101 looking at it now would be a instant buy for me considering the locomotive is amazing. But i didn't get it for one reason, because it didn't have a cab car. That's like them making the 146 with the dostos but without the cab car. We all know that the 101 with the ic coaches and cabcar are a key part of that train in real life so the fact that they didn't make it is what made me not get it. I'm not gonna spend $20 on a incomplete train set.

    Rush hour in my opinion was nothing more than Rushed Hour. It was cool to see what they were trying to do and to see Joe's passion on the London Commuter stream was amazing but the issues with all three rush hour routes on consoles at least was nothing short of a mess and made me not want to buy it at all.

    The issues that have plagued this game have been issues that as you rightly point out affected dtg in the early days of Train Simulator. But the average consumer who has tsw2 but doesn't have ts isn't gonna give a flying flamingo about that. The consumer should expect DTG to make good consistent quality products across the board considering that the game has been out for almost 5 years now. If a consumer doesn't see that then they may not want to buy future content or just continue to be frustrated with DTG. With the technology we have today games have an unlimited potential but with the the common practice of "Release Now, Fix it later" or just simply rushing products just to meet self imposed deadlines is what creates these justifiable constructive criticisms and DTG is a company that seems to have embraced the common practice in modern gaming. I wish that the gaming industry could go back to the mindset of the early to mid 2000s in which devs took their time to release a game which led to very few or no bugs in a game and if there was a game with massive bugs, most people wouldn't buy it.

    Despite what happy feet matt says, there are many third party devs that are not attracted to making content for tsw2 either for reasons such as profit, lack of freedom and tools as was pointed out in a thread a few months ago so I won't be suprised if there are still a lack of third party devs jumping ship to tsw2 anytime soon
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  49. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Taking things through to a logical conclusion I'm unsure anyone will be fully satisfied with TSW but if I can get an hour or so of enjoyment then fine. TS for me is full of issues simply using it as it has plenty of content doesn't mask the game crashes and poor graphics and physics. Zusi 3 is the best pure simulation however graphics are not what we would expect today and I can't speak German so have had to stumble around the manuals. TSW is the best for eye candy and has the all important timetable mode. The lack of a timetable mode for TS is a big thing for me as everything is a stage managed scenario or free roam type session. It took years as others have said for TS to get to content levels of today and some of that content was not great at times. Expectations need to be realistic a look back at the evolution of other railway simulation provides some clues on timescale and quality that people can expect.
     
  50. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well if they just stick to just fixing things then they won't make any money or they would make less than they would compared to making a new dlc
     
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