PC Will We Ever Get The Promised Fixes?

Yes I have read your posts. You tried it once and then gave up on it. As stated by your good self in this thread…

You complain about the performance of all the new routes but you don’t own any of them. You haven’t got a clue how they actually perform.

 

Where did I say I only tried it once? I played it at launch, I played it off and on until February after every patch to see if things improved. Nice try putting words in my mouth though, but in the future just don't. You just make yourself look foolish.

 

You are turning away from the original issue: DTG has promised to apply fixes to TSW2, and they haven't.
Some issues were created by patches, and left broken. TSW3 is not the solution, even if it was a better product.

 

lol, gotta be kidding me. If none of these have arrived after 2 years, lets see what another 2 years brings. I sure hope they get around to fixing the LIRR. It seems the LIRR has been neglected. The M7 propulsion when decelerating still is not fixed. It could be so much better if the devs just gave this route some TLC. For now, I am enjoying LIRR on TSC

 

I think I'll remind people on this thread that we need to be talking about trains, in particular the updates to TSW2.

There are some trolls on here who are choosing every opportunity to turn the conversation into personal attacks and/ or DTG bashing and insulting their employees.. It's basically the same people every time. We don't need them on the forum. I wish they would just go away and bother somebody else.

 

It would appear that the same bunch of folks are constantly getting a bit angry that people think that 3 is a better game than 2, and then insult said people because it doesn't agree, even if they got everything they wanted they still wouldn't be happy because at this point, they have convinced themselves that DTG is pure evil and everything they do is nothing but cashgrabs, they have become so blinded in their own beliefs that they will never be satisfied ever, period.

 

That is simply untrue.

Y'know, folks who are so quick to call other people "liars" ought to be especially careful with the veracity of what they say themselves.

What Matt said was that they were going to address framerate issues - i.e. performance - in LBN, as well as red-light and related issues - and they did (except for Croydon, still a big sag there). He pointedly did not say that they were going to address stuttering. Never promised it, never claimed it: and understandably so: stuttering is a byproduct of the engine, and so long as TSW runs on Unreal stuttering is a fact of life.

 

I would say that by this point, uploading the TSW2 fixes has become a matter of honour for DTG. Forget talk about the Sale of Goods Act or the Uniform Commercial Code, and DTG need to forget or at least ease up on "paid software always gets upload priority." After six months this so-far-unkept promise is costing you, DTG, goodwill: and your own accountants will tell you that goodwill has measurable balance-sheet value.

So FFS postpone some trivial DLC like a livery pack for a week so you can get those updates you said you would and which you have said are already done! Because you are not cutting a very fine business figure; an earlier age would have called your behaviour in this regard "caddish."

 

I'm sorry, but if you go to the opening page of these forums, this particular thread and all other discussions like it, are listed under "Train Sim World Discussions". I believe that discussing the promise of fixes for some pert of TSW2, TSW3, or any DLC associated with the above, is just that..........discussion. Nowhere in the description does it say, "Train discussion". As th OP, I don't care what people think as to which version of the game is better, that is simply childish and I don't care a fig for it. What we are asking for, is that six months after fixes were promised, they still are not forthcoming and when will they be?. Is that too much to ask? I would suggest that your comment re: employee bashing does nothing to add to the discussion regarding the fixes we were promised, and should therefore be a separate thread supporting the employees etc. Further, I have never personally 'insulted', or 'bashed' their employees. I have at all times, been respectful in asking the question "will we ever get the fixes" and addressing people like JD in a manner I deem respectful.

 

If we’re keeping it real, it’s not bricked or crippled though. There are some bugs. I do recommend you check out the EULA; usually you can’t sue for issues like bugs as you’re bound by the dispute resolution process in the EULA, and companies usually make no warranties that the software will be uninterrupted or error free. Pretty standard stuff for a gaming industry EULA.
Cars are a different story as problems with those can seriously injure people.

 

And you don't have to sign a EULA to buy a car

 

Unless your favourite route is on the list in this thread. If I understand correctly, these services used to work fine until some update introduced the issue in the summer of 2022. They fixed only TSW3, and said "we can look at backporting to TSW2".
The wording is always careful: they don't promise a fix, but they don't deny a fix will ever come. My guess is that they will never fix it, and they know they will never fix it.

 

Uh, the game is full of scenarios and services that cannot be completed. Of course, you don't hear about them that much, because those who experience them report it once then most likely give up on the route. The hype is always around the new routes, while old content is left to rot in unplayable states.

For example, there is a scenario for the DB BR 363 on RSN that cannot be completed and it has been like that for years now! They released a fix for it recently, just so you can progress a bit further, then get an infinite red light again.

 

Yes a few services/scenarios don’t work, out of thousands. It’s infuriating when we encounter one of these but it’s not really egregious. Not when you have all this other content- like it’s just hard to take posts saying “class action” and the game is “bricked” seriously if the vast majority of content is playable. Let’s keep things in perspective, no? An arbitrator would lol.
Every rpg game ever has quests that are bugged and can’t be completed (Skyrim has one that, if it pops up, doesn’t let you complete the main quest, negating literal weeks or months of progress)
I’ve lost ea sports online matches because of a bug (I was winning and a game literally reset to an earlier period when it was tied lmao). And that’s been in the game for the past 10 versions

 

Ah yes the careful play of words that hides their true motives such as:

You don't have to believe DTG, but then there's no real point being involved in a discussion with someone or something when you don't believe a word they say to you, less so being their customer.

 

This is whataboutery: every one does it, so we can do it too.

Imagine telling a bank "I am committed to paying back my loan" instead of actually making a payment.

Anyway, I think I am entitled to my opinion, which is clearly stated. I am not forcing my opinion on anyone else.

 

Just to throw this one out there... Wasn't the Class 313 on the roadmap for over a year?

On the overall topic, DTG have sometimes been good with getting fixes and releases out there, and a lot of time absolutely terrible at telling us what's going on with the engineering in the background, and this isn't helped by the lowering of the supposed roadmap to a monthly schedule, the removal of Adam or anyone from the engineering team from the lineup and seemingly a backstep from these teams on the forums.

We're left with the community team, and from what they say themselves on the streams they're not up to speed on the technical aspects of the game so we can't expect them to be on the ball with issues, fixes and technicalities either.
At least when it was Matt and Adam (and Sam) on streams we would get "We've worked on this and it's in testing" or at least the QUESTION of what's going on. Now we get more "OOh look at this shiny thing we're doing" without addressing the stuff that was broken and remains so (or even made worse)

 

Sure, only a few services/scenarios don't work out of the thousands that we have in the game. But let's flip this logic around. Let's say I buy the DB BR 363 for RSN. It comes with three scenarios. One cannot be completed. So literally one third of the pre-made scenarios cannot be completed for this poor train. Sure, there are thousands of other scenarios and services for other trains on different routes, but I bought this one for full price and it does not work. At this point, knowing that I could buy another route for 30 euros and that one works does not make me happy, because what I have just bought DOES NOT work. Does this sound acceptable to you?

When every DLC is a separate 20-30 euros purchase, saying "oh, but most other scenarios work" is not an excuse. Every DLC requires it's separate purchase, so every DLC should work properly to justify their own price tag. And it's not just scenarios. There are trains with broken Livery Designer funcitonality (CalTrain rolling stock), trains that cannot be used in Scenario Planner properly (again CalTrain rolling stock and MBTA trains), routes with dispatcher and red light issues (SoS, Harlem Line), routes with ghost town timetables (LIRR, New York - Trenton) and who knows how many scenarios and services that cannot be completed.

 

If TSW3 is such a glowing success on PC can you explain the disastrously low overall sales and low usage stats on that preferred platform ?

TSW2 stats:
https://steamcharts.com/app/1282590#All

Note that for around TWO years TSW2 hovered around 1500 daily peak players.

TSW3 stats:
https://steamcharts.com/app/1944790#All

With TSW3, apart from a launch peak of 1683 users it has dropped to less than 1000 a day and in recent weeks has really began to slump to just over 700.

Most telling is this comparison of the performance of TSW2 against TSW3:
https://steamcharts.com/cmp/1944790,1282590#All

For two years TSW2 performed considerably better than TSW3 regarding user figures and notice the alarming terminal nosedive of TSW3 in the last few weeks? TSW3 has been a dud for DTG and is fizzling out right now. Perhaps there is a sense of panic that has led to the feverish announcement of many new DLCs in a desperate effort to keep a dying franchise going with a fresh influx of funds that are unlikely to materialise from users who are not even playing the game anymore.

It seems that numerous poor reviews and the massive (at times angry) protests from disgruntled loyal TSW users have had the desired effect of practically crippling the unwanted mutant that is TSW3 at birth. I would like to congratulate everyone who has contributed to sending a message loud and clear to DTG that we will not tolerate being exploited and will hit you back hard in the only place that matters to you... your bank balance.

 

You do realise that you are using stats from a period of pandemic when most people where wary of leaving their house (or even legally house bound for large periods in some regions) and then comparing it to a period when people have finally regained their freedom and having spent much of the period couped inside want to go out and enjoy life again, right?. Of course concurrent players have decreased over that period, people have far more options on how to spend their free time now. You do also forget that TSW3 is available on PC X Game Pass and Epic. Whereas pre Aug 21 PC users had Steam only, post Aug 21 they had Epic and limited game pass.

I mean I could point out that just 100 odd users are still playing TSW2 rather than TSW3 , seems like your protest is having an amazing success.

 

What this graph shows percetly well is how TSW has not grown much, if at all, through the years. This is something I have already said a few times, that with their half-assed "this will do" attitude to just barely hit the bare minimum every time, the game might stay afloat, but it will never really grow. They need to up the quality (and not release things like New York - Trenton with 50% reused scenery and lackluster timetable) and fix obvious issues both in new and old content.

 

Just comparing user stats from the period AFTER lockdown rules were lifted still show TSW2 as much more popular than TSW3.

 

If TSW3 is in trouble then Fifa is in absolute free fall over the last month, or perhaps the data isnt accurate for the last 30 days? Otherwise how do you explain a 50% drop in players on Fifa23?

 

The number of players per minute, hour, day or month is less important than you think.

The important numbers are sales.

For instance, due to other commitments ( like a normal life ), I don't get to play TSW every day and, even when I do play it's just for a hour here and there.

But I buy a lot of routes and locos. More selectively these days, but still a healthy amount. And, even though I bought NYT and the US loco bundle last month, I've not been able to play them much, the loco bundle not at all.

This month I'll buy at least a couple more dlc. When I'll get to them and add to the Steam play numbers, who knows.

 

Man, your obsession borders on the unhealthy

 

So is the TSW2 patch going to happen or not? Months on end of waiting with nothing but "Its waiting for an appropriate release" is not an answer, its an evasion.

 

We're not going to get any definitive dates or timelines from DTG here. May as well just laugh it off for now.

 

I agree although will go further. Matt seems to like promising stuff that will never see the light of day, Sam is mostly hot air yes he has taken some DTG to task in some streams but you can't tell me these haven't been rehearsed beforehand, JD comes over as a hypocrite time and time again especially with threats to shutdown threads as he sees them political but he deems it ok to ban words like 'Russia' which is laced with political overtones, oh the Irony. I know forums are not democracies but the better ones practice what they preach.

I maybe wrong but have had the feeling that DTG want to bury TSW2 and not 'waste' time on it. If they had any sense they would have released TSW3 free from the start and so take the customer base with them but they probably saw the pound signs. Surely keeping there base players happy would mean they spend more no?

For me I won't get TSW3 as I have no incentive, I want the RD fixes to help me play the game (I'm disabled) and for the fixes to TSW2. My routes are all in England so I don't see the need to get it, give me an incentive and then I might.

 

Do you go on SI Games forums and cry that they dont give you the latest Football Manager game for free (which they bring out yearly without fail very little anything new other than a revised database)? Do you go complain at apple when they refuse to give you the latest Iphone which is identical almost to the last one? Or do you save your entitlement solely for DTG?

Usually when a new version of a game comes out, as far as development for the old one goes thats it. Any bugs left are like that for eternity, just be grateful that you are getting anything.

 

I think people became accustomed to yearly free core updates like TSC and even TSW originally until they made a clear case to break with that tradition when releasing TSW2 on an updated game engine. Perhaps they could have been honest and said they were changing things up and will release annual (or maybe every 2 years) core updates that will be paid for revisions. With sports games those that play them know what they're getting into. Same old recycled junk with a roster update and a new look menu. But they've been used to it for 20 years. I'm just guessing here, but that's why I think you see a lot of pushback against the TSW3 paywall.

 

When you buy virtually any software you buy knowing that they'll be bugs and at some point sooner rather than later the developer will stop supporting it and move on to their next shiny new thing.

I turn this around and ask why do people who publically slate the company and repeatedly say they've no interest in buying any new software made by DTG ever again, so in no way is supporting the development in terms of revenue, expect that the developer will continue supporting them? Its nonsense, and quite frankly as someone who continues to buy TSW3 content I don't see why I should be paying DTG to then spend that revenue supporting an obsolete older version of the game. Especially given the numbers who would actually benefit for this are (as shown in graphs above) diminishing rapidly.

 

Patience.

 

It is a good point. I mean DTG could have just said "so long losers" and been done with it. Threads like these are just prolonged by their decision to commit to bug fixes / whatever for TSW2 with zero commitment on a timeline. So people keep coming back wondering "Is it this week/month/year?". And you're also likely correct that the vast majority of us players still using TSW2 are no longer DTG customers.

 

Comparisons with the annual sports games isn't exactly the same because with them, buyers are not expecting to play all the previous years stuff they have purchased, they only want the latest teams and rosters.

I doubt that there would be many here who would be happy at having to only drive routes made for the latest version and all previously purchased older routes were destined for the digital scrapheap.

 

It has been mentioned time and time again, but TSW is supposed to be the NEXT generation of rail simulation. And yes, objectively, it is the most forward going (with Simrail being a mixed bag of better and worse ideas). The railfan market is definitely smaller than that of plane simulators, but with a DEFINITIVE title with high-quality products, this game should have definitely swept the community, and the TSC honestly should have been obsolete by now... but TSC still exists, and TSW is just there... barely held up by consoles... nothing to write home about...

 

I tend to agree. There was a solid wow factor when TSW was first released and you'd think it would have by now replaced TSC as the route and loco DLC catalog increased as TSW does offer a more modern and better visual experience. But there was a reluctance for quite some time for 3rd party developers to jump in. And now there's just poor business decisioning sending out rush job after rush job out the door to an increasingly frustrated player base. Ah what could have been. Alas, we await a proper competitor to come sweep up this hobby if any should find value in it.

 

I play TSW3 happily. But I hear you and agree.

They said Feb 22. We are going to slow down on new development to fix the errors on TSW2 and get all this Pres Crew backlogged released.

Then TSW 3 came out with all the promised fixes for TSW 2 included in it but not on the original game. Then we were told it won't be too long, we are talking weeks not months. But now we are getting into months later and still no urgency.

This is why I don't watch roadmap streams or pay attention to the commentary on the preview streams amd haven't since Rush Hour.

I've been on board this train since TSW 2020. And it hasn't changed in all that time, you can't believe what they say probably about half the time. And epecially older content once the new edition comes out, it always gets placed on the back burner.

Just like the TSW 2020 fixes did when TSW2 came out.

And I really doubt you will get them before the next "Summer Paid Update" comes out.

But we are now up to 4 years of the same thing so I don't expect it to change and I guess I have some sort of Stockholm symdrome as I just accept it amd move on.

But yes shady practices indeed, but it's been on their other games as well.

Look up the TGV Reseau debacle on the TSC forums. Also look up Flight Sim World. That's all you need to know about DTG.

 

'the vast majority of us players still using TSW2 are no longer DTG customers.' But, we could still be, given some of us don't own ALL DLC, but would go back and purchase routes/locos we hadn't previously bought, were it (TSW2), fixed. Heck, I've even said elsewhere I could be tempted to try TSW3 if the promise is kept.

 

Yeah you're right about that. I generalized way too much there. For me personally I haven't seen anything of great quality or interest in TSW3 even if I were able to stand playing it. But that's not to say that I should ever fully close the door on anything. I guess I'm 90% out the door and my coat is caught on the door handle

 

I took a break from TSW3 and went back to 2 after launch but came back after Birmingham and Edinburgh released to check them out.
I went so far as to install EVERYTHING to TSW3 to compare it better.
The game still has performance issues, though somewhat reduced, but there are still glaring problems that make it unplayable for me, and which led to the situation where as soon as a route gets a TSW3 update I try a few services under different conditions to get a feel for it, and so far this has regrettably led to uninstalling said routes and sticking with their TSW2 versions.

Plenty of us WANT TSW3 to be better and give it every chance to be. But trying the new content really isn't always necessary if people like myself who are trying it are already posting videos of what for many are deal breaking glitches.

 

I'm guessing there's no chance to install the TSW2 version of a route in TSW3 after it gets the downgrade edition tagged to it? i.e. SEHS and Boston?

 

On XBox, that's not possible. The MS Store has two(***) versions of the DLC: the original TSW2 version, and the "TSW3 compatible" version. The former works with TSW2 only, while the latter works only with TSW3. You can see this in the store, when you look at a DLC: it says "Works with" and the version of the game that the DLC is paired with.
The same goes for PC installed from MS Store: each DLC gets downloaded separately, and works with one of the games only. I have definitely seen two LGV directories, two GWE directories, etc.

NOTE ***: for older DLCs, there are actually more versions, depending on how many TSW releases they were compatible with. Here's TVL for TSW, TSW2020, TSW2 and TSW3.

 

I haven't played TSW2 and TSC. I bought TSW3 deluxe two months ago.
I can't pass SoS. I searched for answers on youtube. I found different from TSW2. I suspect SoS is broken in TSW3.
I mean is people don't know they bought a broken product.
No official explanation to me.
From my experience, this company doesn't care about players anymore.
There are a lot of problems nobody repaired, even TSW3 too.
What we can do is, only buy undamaged DLC picky.
The game may break again.
I'm hesitant to continue buying. I don't want "expensive sad".

 

It's similar on PC/Steam. TSW/TSW2020 have separate DLC app for an addon, TSW2 has a separate app for the same addon and TSW3 also has a separate app. "TSW compatible" just means all the versions of that addon DLC are included in the subscription package you purchase, but given version of the game can use just the one specific which was built for that version, and not that they are interchangeable (with an exception that for TSW & TSW2020 it's the same DLC, because TSW2020 was "just an update" for TSW and not a separate game).

 

How to survive Dovetail:

1. Do not buy DLC day one. Day one is a full price beta test. Always buy on sale, never full price until they can offer better support for their (relatively) expensive add-ons.
   
2. Do not rely solely on official and ambassador propaganda. Read reviews and opinions from the community.
   
3. Be prepared for every bug/glitch/error to not be fixed, despite being reported to them.
4. Enjoy what is there, because a lot of it is great and the developers do strive to make an enjoyable product.

Game development is very much a collaborative process, and there is no way they can make the perfect game for everyone. However they certainly can show greater respect for the voices that are funding their project and paying their salaries. Not in words, but in actions.

 

I don't quite understand the tragedy of people with TSW2.
Based on my experience and estimates, I can say that TSW3 is better than TSW2. All old DLC are supported in TSW3 and migrated to it with known errors. Most of the bugs have been fixed, some are slowly being worked on, some will never be fixed.
I think it's wise for TSW2 players to get the cheapest TSW3 package at a discount, and successfully continue using the old TSW2 content (which is partially fixed, some are still being worked on). There is no point in getting nervous and demanding fixes for a product that is no longer supported. Promises to fix it have the status of the lowest development need.
You may not agree with me, but I think so.

 

I don't agree with you.
Some people bought TSW2 in August 2022, less than a year ago. Are you sure it is no longer supported?!

 

You could buy any software on a Monday for it to be unsupported by Tuesday.

 

On my example: I own TSW2 since a little over than a year. Cuurently I own 8 DLCs and I'm completely not interested in TSW3.

Why?

Three reasons:

1. Huge backlog of TSW2 DLCs, so I'm not interested in new routes available for TSW3;
2. None of the features introduced by TSW3 is impacting simulation part of the game - those impacts on visuals: I don't need dynamic weather, volumetric clouds, some sparkles etc.
3. Hard to understand the level of optimisation for PS4: is it at least at the same level as TSW2? As there is no demo available I cannot check myslef and the comments about it are inconclusive.

Hence I prefer to stay with TSW2 now and I would gladly enlarge my DLC collection with those ~50 DLCs I'm still missing - but I can't!

Why?

Again three reasons:

1. I cannot buy routes still not updated with remaining Pres Crew updates (in case of Peninsula Corridor it is unplayable);
2. I cannot buy any other route because I cannot evaluate how much those are being impactes by two major issues:
   1. Red light/dispatcher issue;
   2. Derailment issue.

I'm example of a client for whom not delivering those fixes results in potential revenue loss for DTG.

I cannot evaluate what is the number of other clients like me, but if it is not a minority, maybe DTG should consider rhe decision of providing those fixes as a one impacting their revenue, just like i. e. Add-on Manager.