Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by 37114, Sep 25, 2019.
Just a quick poll to gauge peoples opinions
Almost certainly at some point but not necessarily at initial release.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too premature!
"I would if it was an extension to RSN"
this, and also the pricing needs to be realistic to the content of the DLC. RSN costs 30€, you get 2 or 3 loco's (depending if you call the Dosto cab car a loco, because it technically isn't). RSN has a length of 62 km. This route on the othee hand has only got 2 loco's of which one is kinda recycled. It will be, I think maximum 45 km if both stretches are included. This means that, if the pricing would be realistic, it should be maximum 23€ (same price as WSR). I am willing to pay 23€ for it, maximum 25€ but 30€ for this content seems far too expensive. Still hyped though, I always like new German content
I'll probably buy RSN in the sale, since I don't have that, and save this for a future sale when it might also be available for a reasonable price
Unless some game-changing, and game-changing in the right direction, info about the DLC comes out, I'll buy it in half a year or so when it's on sale for the first time. Pricing matters too, of course, as already stated.
As things look like right now however, it's a pretty clear No.
I will be buying regardless if it is or is not a extension to an existing route.
I think it looks really cool, but I chose option 2 because I don't want another NEC/LIRR situation. I would like them to solve whatever issues prevent them from merging two routes that belong together before I give them the release-day price.
Of course, when it goes on sale for 50% off I'll gladly pick it up.
Probably not, I'm not a big fan of German stuff.
Also no. I have all the DLC to date and having seen how the pricing has gone over the first year I can see how much of a saving I can make if I buy it later so will be doing that from now on
Not a fan of German routes or trains so, no.
Definitely! 422 is my favourite train and if I got that right, will be available in RSN, too
422 avaliable on RSN? It's just a guess right?
The problem with this route besides recycled content, obviously it's the length.
I was bothered enough with the Tees Valley short stretch and now they came with roughly 27km? I know it could feature another freight track stretching along, But basically it's covering the same area.
So the way I see it:
The 422 it's nice but I don't think it's enough, I expected a diesel or at least a new locomotive like an 151 or 189.
I'm f* tired of Dostos, and the same locomotives from other routes;
don't get me wrong, it's nice to have the older ones but It's definitely not enough.
And for such a short route I think they should give RSN owners the option to merge with. Including the 422 to be used on both.
For DTG advocates on site, please...
don't even start with the "not accurate" thing since we have 143's on RB & RE services.
Where is the option to "wait to see the price and/or wait for a sale" ? If it is around the same price WSR was at launch (which is roughly the same length at this one); I may jump on it at release. Even though the route is short, there will still be plenty of stuff to do.
Unless there is a technical reason for it and they literally can’t do it at the moment, I don’t understand why this isn’t a route extension for RSN?
It’s very very short for a stand-alone route.
More than likely, yes; providing the price point is appropriate. I stated my opinion already in the announcement thread. That 422 is quite appealing to me!
Just spit balling here....but wouldn't they need to recompile RSN to include RRO and then maintain 2 versions of RSN to accommodate the RSN owners who do not own RRO ? Maybe this isn't possible to do in UE
I'm almost 100% certain that it is possible, I just think it is because they want it to be a route on itself because that sells better. But for the existing owners of RSN, this is of course bs. New players might choose RRO. but not the ones knowing it is some stupid extra route which doesn't directly connect to RSN. I still hope DTG changes there minds and either make it an extension now or in a future update. I just don't see the need for an extra route when it could be connected at Hagen so it is one big route which people are gonna love.
Seems like the likely reason. Unless they made RSN owners download the full package, but just denied access to the new bit until they paid... Or they could extend it for free to everyone
Actually wondering, if you had both (since you'd probably need to change trains anyway), whether you could run a scenario where one of the tasks was to drive a train in to the shared station, walk to a point at which point it could load the other route, then take the other train out. I have only skimmed the surface of UE4, but I presume the levels are called in by the scenario, rather than vice versa?
Thinking about it some more....it's probably 100% do-able in the UE, but maybe the limitation is the TSW interface/menus. Currently we have a console-esque route selection screen, with scenarios etc then selectable from there...how would a route extension be managed in the current menu system ? Would another route have to be created named "RSN + RRO" ? Is so, then the RSN scenarios will need to be moved to this new 'route' and RSN removed (or maybe kept for legacy purposes)
I dont know....but maybe it is a logistical nightmare from a programming point of view to make it happen in the current UI
Not until the product has matured a little more. Id love to be super excited about buying more DTG stuff but the acknowledged issues of the UE4 engine version that DTG are using leading to sound issues, the dreadful skybox, lack of immersion factors and inevitable bugs on release have stopped me from purchasing anything since NTP. As previously stated though I can see improvements so Im hopeful that at some point the franchise might offer what Im after which is simply a believable experience without noticeable issues that completely ruin immersion. Getting rid of the passenger in the cabs of the locomotives on NTP would be an easy and immediately effective suggestion for example. There are many more but this is not the place. So yeah, Ill wait this one out too until I see some of those changes filtering through into the development lines.
Definitely yes. And it would be perfect if it would be possible to connect RSN and RRO and if a dieselshunter would be added so that we could supply Elversingen powerplant with coal and use the other non-electric industrial yards at RSN.
I will probably buy it, but the lack of a German diesel shunter is disappointing tbh- I still don't understand DTG's plan with creating so much unusable trackage in the German routes.
This route does seem oddly interesting.
I think I will get it at release (unlike MSB) because I particularly enjoy EMUs and I like stopping at stations frequently. S-Bahn routes are perfect in that regard.
I am just waiting for more info, especially on scenery quality, before taking my final decision.
I trust they will give us the shunter right after this new route... at leaste it make sense, a shunter also can be used here(at Woppertal Langerfel yard), i've seen one there on google earth
All in all, it would be a loco for 3 german routes
So maybe this is why the journey mode was added then? If routes can't be extended then it's game over for me, be arsed driving for 30 miles, having to load in another route to drive a further 20 miles on the same line, rinse & repeat
I posted elsewhere I think choosing UE4 may of been a massive mistake, I'm getting more convinced of that now
Depends. Need more info. So far it all looks fantastic aside the theorized length. Maybe a pre release stream will help (wink wink nudge nudge DTG)
They’ve always said that route length was limited by development time, which clearly isn’t the case here.
Commercially it would have made sense. Buy it standalone if you own RSN, or discount RSN (which has been going on for a long time anyway) alongside it as part of the purchase, increasing sales of an older DLC. Win win.
I really don’t understand why they’ve chosen to have it as a separate route. For me, the precedent this sets once again is ominous, and demonstrates that where TSW takes one step forwards, it then takes 2 steps back.
I will get it since i like German Content.
Would´ve prefered if this route would be an extension to RSN though. Its really annoying that you have the same station on 2 routes and cant just hop off one train and jump into another thats going along the new route without going back to the Menu and load the other route. They really need to make that possible in the future.
No counter opinion again, just another down vote?
Tell me, why am I wrong?
The best reason I can come up with, is that it's just technically impossible.
Especially the UI is probably not capable of "merging" multiple routes together. Conversely, the rendering engine is probably able to render multiple routes together similarly to what you can do when creating new scenery layers for scenarios (they spoke about this during the editor livestream).
From a semi-educated point of view, what would seem to be the toughest to manage, would be services. Hagen is a bad exampe for that, but let's take a hypothetical route Reading to Oxford as an showcase, that we want to merge into the existing GWR. GWR has services from London to Reading, RTO has services Reading to Oxford. Easy. Just give them different tracks and/or times at Reading.
But now, how do you implement services that go from London to Oxford? Mind you, they are supposed to work right in all three cases: You own GWE only, you own RTO ownly, and you own both of them.
Give these services some kind of indentic ID, so if you own both DLC is like, ah. that's the same service here, I got to carry it on to <Station_ID_Oxford> then, and not despawn it!
Or do you just implement additional services to the ones terminating at Reading? That might work for regional trains, but a half-hourly HST shuttle Reading to Oxford? That would seem off.
So maybe you could create an entire timetable rather than individual services, and have the game check which DLCs you own, and load the according timetable. Might work, but then DTG once mentioned that creating timetables/services is one of the more labour-intensive tasks when it comes to producing a new DLC. (Which, from my days of creating content for MSTS, I can very well imagine to be true.) And now we have three whole timetables for what is essentially one route... so is that the ideal scenario now? And, oh yeah, scenarios... what do we do with these?
Well, since I'm not a fan of German routes and trains in general and given the microscopic size of the route, absolutely not. Waste of money and hard drive space if you ask me.
So from my non-programming background, your explanation makes sense.
I don't really know what the solution is, but one option (maybe) would be to have any route extensions come with loco and scenario DLC. Everyone who owns the base route (in your example GWR) would get the route extension to Oxford for free, but you'd have to pay to get the new locos and Oxford-based scenarios. They could then also sell the GWR "complete version" to new players that would include everything. This way they only have to design the service timetable in one configuration, and designing scenarios for the extension would basically be the same as designing them for the standalone DLC as they do now. They could also sell livery packs (assuming they have enough licensed) to help make up for lost revenue.
I don't have any idea if this would be economically feasible for DTG, but the idea of separate routes terminating/originating in the same location that require going back into a menu screen to continue on just seems so antithetical to the unique selling point of TSW. It's been annoying with LIRR/NEC, and with the new German route announcement I feel like they need to address this problem definitively one way or another. As a console player, I have little to no hope that the editor will make its way (even indirectly) to us, so increasing the complexity of service mode (the heart of the game IMO) via route extensions/combinations is the best way to ensure long term playability, at least that's how I see it.
Nice to see another MSTS vet on here btw- I was never involved in developing content, but was an avid player back in the day.
As more and more specific information comes out, I'm more and more sure to purchase this add-on. I'm hoping that loading containers will be involved, even though that hasn't been mentioned yet. However, container cars and containers have been mentioned, so my fingers are crossed -- which makes typing rather difficult.
Did I miss a new announcement?
I will be buying it especially since they are trying something new. I’m interested in being able to ride down the main line or the S-Bahn.
I'll buy it at full price if they ship it with this sky!
A 422 running on an RE, and from precisely the opposite side of Hagen Hbf than you'd expect? I hope that promo shot is not too telling about the realism of services. (But indeed about the skybox, that looks like a step forward very much)
Nice to see another service mode aficionado!
Am I missing something?
The sky box in that picture on FB is the current sky box. I can’t see anything new there.
Sure are. Here is a side by side comparison (not like for like but close enough).
Left image is 'enhanced' Facebook image..............................................Right image taken from in game via https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/hagen-take-two
Unless I'm mistaken, DTG's previews always include a disclaimer stating that preview images do not necessarily reflect the appearance of the final release.
I fear you’re going to be sorely disappointed. When you used the word ‘enhanced’ I think you hit the nail squarely on the head.
Do you honestly think they’ve updated the sky box between the official route promo shot and an image on Facebook?
With the greatest will in the world, not a chance.
I change my vote for "if it was an extension to RSN". It is unthinkable for me that the two sections of lines are separated in TSW.
I am curious if it's a technical limitation or a marketing strategy that is keeping them from connecting them.
If it is purely technical, I might consider buying this in the hopes that it will support efforts to solve those problems. If it's a marketing reason, then there is no way I'm buying it.
Marketing-wise, the option to change from RRO to RSN or vice versa "on the fly" would have been a million times smarter, so I'm willing to take fairly considerable bets that it's of technical nature. Caution, speculation: Maybe that actually explains why the route is so ridicolously short. It was planned as an extension, only it didn't work.
As per the discussion a bit further up, DTG always enhances the pre-release marketing shots me thoughts
Mind you, they do looks sweet. Like the recent teaser of the 422 at night
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