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Will You Buy Tsw 2?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by longo239, Jun 11, 2020.

?
  1. Yes, as soon as possible.

  2. Possibly, eventually.

  3. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Amazingly, Anthony Pecoraro sent me a DM this afternoon entitled "You are annoying."
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  2. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - that's another reason why TSW2 has to go to PC for me (assuming the Class 47 gets fixed, and they commit to supportng the Class 20) - I can't risk the idea that my PS4 will be required to burn another 50Gb for a duplicate copy of TSW DLC, rather than 3Gb for a duplicate copy of the original UE engine....

    Although I am sure they will retain one copy of the DLC (and have two interfaces for the old UE engine), I have no idea how they intend to deploy the DLC in various configurations.... on different platforms... ;-O
     
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  3. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Except that's exactly what's going to happen. Duplicate DLCs, not a TSW engine copy inside TSW2. That's what I've been telling you for a while now. Go watch the Preserved Collection part of the livestream.
     
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  4. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Suffice to say that you're going in circles on this topic. One of you believes TSW2 is a fresh entity, one believes it isn't. It doesn't matter either way, neither of you will convince the other.

    For clarity, a significant amount of work is required to make existing routes and locos run under TSW2, and that work is ongoing. This is not a straightforward matter and may involve a significant amount of rebuilding.
     
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  5. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Oh. Wow. In that case, I am every much wrong, in my understanding.

    Well... if you are really going to do that.... then why don't you just make them (old TSW DLCs) actually compatible with the TSW2 engine, so that the Livery Designer can be used on the old TSW content..... Just a thought...... (to myself... ;-) ) ?
     
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  6. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying that there will only be one UE4 engine running inside TSW2 and the legacy DLC will be modified to run on it, albeit without the new features? So the DLC which runs in TSW2020 will be different to the DLC which runs inside TSW2, even though it's the same?!

    The further we get into this, the more it seems like a better idea to leave legacy DLC as is within TSW2020. Why bother reworking the old stuff to fit in a new system, without the features of the new system or the achievements/trophies of the old system? I mean, other than being able to tell new owners of TSW2 that they can buy the full library of existing DLC...
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  7. thrashmetal86

    thrashmetal86 New Member

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    I'll probably buy it on sale if no release discount for owning TSW is offered. I'm only interested in two of the routes anyways, as I don't enjoy subway system EMUs. I find them too simplistic with only one control to manipulate and very boring, repeatable tasks. Wish they would have picked an actual railway for the UK route instead of London Underground.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  8. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - I think that is what he is saying. They have adopted the viciously complicated approach.... ;-O

    It's the worst of both worlds, in my opinion. Not what I would do - but then again, I am not 100% sensible myself.

    Maybe we should wait and see what we actually get....?
     
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  9. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    All I can say is thank Fudge the DB BR 155 got fixed, and now the Class 47 has also just made it under the wire (hot news today......):

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...tes-updated-15th-june-2020.15673/#post-142318

    I am now very sure that both locos would have been abandoned under TSW2.... if no-one had pressed for the bugs to get fixed...... ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  10. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I agree you with on that if the content within TSW2020 cannot be redone to take advantage of TSW2 and it's new featues. Then what is the point of importing them into TSW2. Other than to start over again which is not a bad thing, but if cannot take advantage of the new features it would just be better to leave them where they are,
     
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  11. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    TSW content needs A B and C doing to it to get it to run in the TSW2 engine. TSW content would also need D E F G H I and J doing to it to get it to be compatible with the new features in TSW2. The plan appears to be that A B and C are being done to the TSW content but D E F G H I and J are not. All new TSW2 content has A to J already built in from scratch. I get it.
     
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  12. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Think that about sums it up! (Except I think DTG would like you to believe it requires D-Z not just D-J :cool:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  13. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Good description, yes.
     
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  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - this appears to maybe the the plan. My point is that there is no point in doing A, B and C, as they achieve nothing (or at least nothing that we've been told about). But it's worse than that, because you'd still have an unmodifed version of the same DLC running under TSW.

    So you then have two sets of DLC to maintain - unless you really do dump the first set set, withdraw support for it, and withdraw it from the market. Maybe they will maintain both sets of DLC....?

    What they could do is upgrade everything with A, B and C (for no functional benefit), and then upgrade TSW to TSW2 (even for those people that haven't bought it), for no functional benefit.... and then maintain only one set of TSW2 compliant TSW DLC that doesn't have the TSW2 features.....

    What they can't do, at least not on Playstation, is withdraw support for one set of DLC, continue to publish it and sell it, and never fix "Must Fix" bugs.... that is something that can't possibly happen. Sony won't allow that.
     
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  15. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, still seems like a lot of effort for DLC that I'd probably still use through TSW1 instead, because otherwise I'll lose all my progress and trophies. A, B, C might make it compatible, but it feels a little like they haven't even considered K, L, M, N... Unless it's all about churn, and new players coming into the game are the only real consideration.
     
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  16. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I have thought about it a bit more. Maybe, the A,B & C will actually provide general benefits, from the later UE build, across the piece (but without the TSW2 features). This could include better tile streaming and graphics handling, for example... so maybe.... and this is a really tentatively speculative maybe.... maybe...:

    -
    stuff like the tunnels at Standedge and NY Penn (and San Fran) will render properly;
    - Bermuda triangles like the Miles Platting area will start working on XBox;
    - there will be less stutter, studder and flutter in the built up areas like the approach to Paddington basin:
    - distant scenery will appear when distant, and won't pop-in at the last (PC hills and German castles....);
    - etc.

    Maybe.... maybe that is what we will get, with your A, B and C (and not a set of Poirot murders...).

    I told you that I was an optimist. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It isn’t the Orient Express but I’ve just had murder trying to get in the cab of a Class 45 from the platform in Manchester. That’s the kind of feature that needs preserving, drivers not being able to get in their cabs. I’m hoping for performance improvements for everything in the preserved collection, otherwise it’ll all be staying in TSW. I think there will be, I’m being an optimist myself now.
     
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  18. doc_woods

    doc_woods Active Member

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    I agree if that's all they do then it's pretty pointless. I'd guess (but it is a guess!) that they probably plan to do more eventually. Maybe not for everything, but possibly for individual items as they become relevant.

    And understandably aren't announcing it because it may not happen and they've understandably become wary of talking about vague future ambitions. (And I certainly wouldn't buy anything based on my vague speculation about future plans...)

    But without some ambition to link things in a bit more then it does seem a pretty pointless exercise.
     
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  19. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - I really do wonder why they built out all that track in the OSD port area, only to cover it with buildings (and now I understand the track has at least been de-activated from the in-game map....?). I think there are lots of other vast under-used areas, like on TVL (although maybe that will get used with the Class 20). So maybe... if they are "upgrading" routes (without functionality)... there is a purpose to it all.

    Maybe, one day... we'll get a teaser.... and a big reveal... For now though, my approach will be to watch what actually gets delivered, when it gets deilvered. Speculation by us is probably as pointless as promises from DTG.... even if speculation is fun.... the broken promises aren't....... ;-)
     
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  20. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Guys, the reason they do this whole Preserved Collection thing is so you can play the old TSW addons in TSW2, therefore you don't have to keep both games installed if you bought TSW2. So I wouldn't call it pointless, I think it's a great call, especially because I suppose it doesn't take that much work to do it.

    The reason the old addons don't get the new features is because that would actually require more work. I don't know how routes are made for the Scenario Editor, so I can't say much about that, but I suppose the 3D models may require a complete overhaul to work with the Livery Editor, if they weren't made with that in mind when they were created.

    So to some extend I understand that the old routes don't get the new features, but it's still a big letdown from a player perspective, especially the Scenario Editor one, because I think many people were looking forward to create scenarios for the already exsisting routes. But my biggest complaint is still the fact that the old routes/trains don't get bugfixes anymore. Some of them are in a really really sad state.
     
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  21. Dominik Tuchowicz

    Dominik Tuchowicz New Member

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    Guys, stop overthinking. TSW2 is a bit updated version of TSW, not a revolution itself. It`s not a next game title, it`s next update with corrected code on the same gen engine, just a bit higher built which we will have to pay for.
    You will play TSW content normally in Scenario or Schedule mode as usual with same assets and routes as you did before. You just cant use TSW stuff on Quick Drive new feature marketed as "Scenario Editor" (Select loco/train, select time, departure station, weather etc - SAME STUFF all over with added departure station and named a Editor).

    All else is the same as it is exactly the same game with changed UI and HUD to make this title more console friendly.
    New routes from TSW2 couldn`t be played in TSW but TSW2 is a newer build so what`s the point of keeping old one on HDD?
    The revolution and next gen game marketing thins is what making hype for fanboys. I keep my expectations very low after seeing that quality was going backward since CSX. GWE didn`t got refueling although we have diesel trains, no train yard.

    While I was always hoping for immersion details to be added like train departures display at platforms, very useful on Free Roam mode, not even all bugs have been fixed and now it will be abandoned so DTG can focus on selling us new bugged stuff. While we worship them with money and wallet the things won't improve. As a business why focus on quality as it`s more costly and timely wise worse, than releasing half done things while the sales are there cause fanboys will buy everything they get and will pardon DTG for issues, so lovely.

    Remember looking for schedules on website? Fan-made schedules? Some of them weren't even released after releasing DLC.
    Station departure boards would made it immersive and easy to see where to wait and what is coming.
    OMSI2 had it for busses and tram. It`s not difficult to implement if it would be encoded in game once. But it require workload and timeframe. Let`s sell them half baked unfinished stuff, let`s do next DLC instead of trying to fix and improve the previous, then sell them "next version" on the same improved code. It`s not been overworked. Just patched and enhanced with few things we won't even benefit on release, since it`s internal coding to ease the work on next modules which allows more stuff to be made differently as current thing is a "UE4 training paid stuff".

    The biggest issue is yet to come known as a "spaghetti code" in the future, redundant and complicated code which will brutally limit new features possibility as while the code grows, gt changed, tweaked, new stuff added all other provious feature are reliant on those lines. You make a new thing and all old stuff ain't working anymore. We aren`t there yet but remember in a few years.

    DCS World and plenty of similar games gives core for free with some stuff then pump money via modules. The have backslashed to devs and made a revolution due to releasing too much Early Acces modules they can`t handle and no clear communication. Since that all have improved, we get there clear comms, roadmap, internal dev team assignemts, timeframes, better focus on fixing things.
    Completely different stuff.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  22. Dominik Tuchowicz

    Dominik Tuchowicz New Member

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    Trust me, none of game is good when the code isn't fixed from day 1, as the bugs, issues, same problems will arise with time.
    What's more, cross platform project will be limited on different platform and all users get the heritage of those limitations.
    This will all arise with troubles and missed promises with time as implementing those fully won`t simply work for all platforms.
    PC users have to be limited by consoles internal memory, GPU, processing power as always in such titles.
    PS4 can`t do this, XBOX can`t do that, PC won`t run that properly etc .... remember that cross platform engines are made for devs, to focus on single product for all platforms at once, not for us, players. Of course same title could be adapted properly at least for PC, but that would need additional team of coders.
     
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  23. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    This is almost certainly a forlorn hope but I'll try to explain this in simple terms. The underlying engine for TSW is Unreal Engine 16.3 (UE16.3). The underlying engine for TSW2 is Unreal Engine 23.1 (UE23.1).

    There are new and changed features in UE23.1 so that the existing Simugraph (probably) and DLC will not run out of box on UE23.1. DTG therefore needed to make modify and enhance Simugraph as well as modify existing DLC so that the DLC would run under UE23.1. This probaby why it took them about nine months for the migration. In the stream they mentioned that there would be two versions of each existing DLC, one for TSW and one for TSW2. This allows TSW2 users to purchase once or more of the existing DLC and run it under TSW2 even if they didn't own it previously.

    Conclusion: Some or all of existing DLC will be modified to run under TSW2 although without being able to make use of any of the new features in TSW2. DTG did mention in the stream that some of the DLC would probably not be modified in time for the release of TSW2 but that they would tell us which ones. It's unclear whether all existing DLC will be eventually be modified to run under TSW2 or not.

    EDIT: It seems my post was overtaken by previous posts whilst I was typing it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  24. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I fully understand all of this (although they have already said it does take a fair amount of work to do it) - my point is, that if you've made any progress on the existing routes, or are interested in completing trophies/achievements, you'll need to keep TSW1 installed anyway. If TSW2 is a whole new package, which it will be if they're charging for it, there's no continuation and no way that it can trigger TSW1 trophies (at least the ones that work).

    So the question then is whether a new player buying an updated version of the legacy route for the first time, to use under TSW2 (how this is going to be made clear on PSN Store is a whole other issue - I don't think a DLC can be linked to two parent apps, but I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows different), are they going to duplicate all of the DLC trophy sets again under the new app, or will the 'preserved' routes simply not have any trophies available? In which case, if the new player likes collecting trophies, would they be better off buying TSW1 in a sale and playing the legacy DLC in that?

    Assuming I'm right about the trophy situation (because DTG have form when it comes to not fully understanding console play), if I buy a new version of a legacy DLC under TSW2, will I also get access to the TSW1 version (so I can collect the trophies), or do I have to make sure I buy the TSW1 version, which then makes the TSW2 version available?!
     
  25. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't really know about these trophies thing, I suppose they are similar to Steam achievements? Well I don't know if they will duplicate them to TSW2 (resulting in your having to complete them again) or just leave them out, but either way yeah, it's a pretty lame situation if you care about those.
     
  26. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    The trophy system loss isn't a deal breaker because like the Steam achievements, in their current format they're pretty pointless. I mean what's the point of gaining a badge, which can't be displayed anywhere or is of no use in game, for using the horn 90 times or opening a window 100 times!

    I'd rather have a proper Driver's log book, with times and dates driven, total mileage driven, which could be broken down to specific routes, locos. Certain scenarios locked out until you have proved competent on a certain route or loco. Having to put your training hours in.

    Basically a proper Career mode.
     
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  27. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but that would require them to make more scenarios than 4 or 5 per route, lol.
     
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  28. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    But according to what we have been told so far in the announcements, the new scenario editor is so easy, putting together 10 or 15 scenarios shouldn't be that difficult for someone who has built it and has an in depth knowledge of it's operation.
     
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  29. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    I believe it called a scenario planner which is not the same thing at all and frankly from the description it's effectively Quick Drive that allows you to schedule AI trains as well as your own.
     
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  30. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    It shouldn't be difficult, yes. Yet for some reason they're still lazy to do more than "five detailed and engaging scenarios" for any route.
     
  31. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Active Member

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    There is a massive difference between being "lazy" and making a business decision that it's not worth the required hours. You can disagree with the business decision without being insulting.
     
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  32. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    From Rivet's response to the DB BR 204 reaction ("obviously we've got it wrong in terms of the amount of gameplay"), it seems like they didn't actually realise that people would rather do interesting and varied scenarios than plough through dozens of identical services from a timetable. Assuming they were in close consultation with DTG while they were doing it, it may be that they were told that x services was about right. I wonder if DTG actual do any tracking from the game to gauge how people are actually using it / which bits they go through first on any new DLC - it may not have been "laziness" so much as simply thinking they'd done enough.
     
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  33. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I think the "lazy developer" trope needs to be permanently retired. It's brought out every time there's a bug, missing requested feature, UI complaint, or just about any complaint about a game you can think of- and it's certainly not limited to our little train-sim corner of the industry.

    Of course some games are more polished, or just flat out better than others, but it's quite likely that time, financial, and/or staffing/talent constraints account for 99% of issues that are attributed to "lazy devs". I suspect a "lazy dev" wouldn't last very long in such a competitive profession.

    If nothing else it shuts down actual discussion about a particular issue. Anyway, just my 2 cents...
     
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  34. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Alright then sorry for the lazy part, but at the end the problem is still that we're only getting 5 scenarios per route, and you go through them pretty quicky. Of course there is the timetable mode which is an amazing solution to this, but the problem is that timetable services usually are just going from A to B.

    There are exceptions of course, like the switching services on the Sand Patch route or the Caltrain switcher ones, just wish more routes did that and that there were more of them. Take the LIRR for example, where most of the services are just going from one station to the other, but there are a few services that after arriving to their destinations, go back to some sidings. There is usually a service for example that parks at a siding near Jamaica, also a service goes to the yard near Atlantic Terminal, so do a few trains pull out to the West Side Yard after NY Penn. And this is a nice touch, but just wish there was more of this going on (and also more traffic to begin with, of course).

    So anyway long story short, if the timetable mode services has a bit more action going on, then that would be perfect. But if not, then at least there could be more scenarios for the routes. I mean there are a bunch on scenarios that could be made. Special trains, holiday trains, etc.
     
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  35. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Dinosbacsi sorry, my comments weren't aimed at you in particular, it's just something that's used way too much in gaming discussions IMO.

    Totally agree with you on scenarios and services btw. For me, service/timetable mode is the defining feature that puts TSW ahead of TS20XX. Quick drive in TS is not even close to the same thing IMO.

    As you said though, there's a lack of consistency in the quality of the services from route to route, or even down to the loco level. I realize they aim to be somewhat prototypical with the passenger services, which is usually just A-B. I'm fine with that. For freight, and especially switching, i think they could get a bit more creative.

    For example:
    In NTP Heavy Freight pack the Class 08 services are quite varied, ranging from assembling passenger and freight trains in Manchester, to shunting wagons into sidings that were set out by another service (the ones you do in Huddersfield). I'm hoping for a lot more of that kind of variety in TSW2. In contrast, the CL08 services in TVL (which i otherwise love), are quite boring, just moving a few wagons around Tees yard. There's a shunting scenario at the Steel works, but no shunting services there. Why not have them sub in for the CL37 in the coke loading services at the ore terminal? Just seems like some missed opportunities.
     
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  36. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Really? Why do you think that? In TSW the service mode tends to include about two or three varied services, and the rest are all just duplicates at different times of the day....?

    The career mode scenarios in TS1 are far more replayable (more difficult to perfect), even though they are fewer in number. And even if you run out, you can download up to 24,000 other scenarios from the Workshop....
     
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  37. JohnnyK98

    JohnnyK98 Well-Known Member

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    I think 5 scenarios is absolutely fine, plus a bunch of 'journey' (services). Personally, I have to 'be in the mood' when I play a scenario.
     
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  38. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I know it's a matter of personal preference, but I find the backwards and forwards of service mode tedious.
     
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  39. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well kind of like a real life timetable? I mean that's the whole point. One definite advantage of service mode to me is that the AI trains actually run their own schedule, unlike in scenarios where they get triggered to move/do stuff by you.

    But as we also mentioned, there is often a lack of variety in them, also simply lack of actual services, like on LIRR. Services should include more interesting procedures, like starting up the locomotives, going to and from depots like in scenarios, pulling aside to sidings and going around the consists, refueling, etc.

    And then there could be a bit more scenarios that are actually interesting (special occasion trains, unique situations, etc). It could be perfect. Of course these would also require a bit more time and effort, but I'd imagine creating timetables and scenarios is minimal work compared to creating the whole route, which includes research, thinking, modelling and building.
     
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  40. samuelsampowersamuel

    samuelsampowersamuel New Member

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    Really excited for this. Day one purchase or pre order for me
     
  41. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Member

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    It's a me, Paulo!

    I did not read all your messages, but for what I can see and say is that some are really getting into this... :D

    I remember when I discovered, that there actually is a train simulator for consoles. It was wonderful. I wasn't able to become a real train driver so I bought it right away. Since I have no thing for other routes than german ones, Rapid Transit was the only interesting route for me. I loved it back then and I love it today. Every announcement of a new german DLC was a big moment and I never got disappointed. The only things which I was left disappointed with, were the BR 155 and BR 204. But here in Germany, we would say "Schwamm drüber", which means, that the disappointment is as small as an ant, because it doesn't bother me much. (Is this well explained, my german fellas? :D)

    I think I can say, that my love for trains and the joy to be able to drive them, overweighs the anger about things like bad lighting, some map-loading issues, etc.
    Like someone in the forum said before, if I want to see a world, that is a hundred percent realistic, I'll go outside and take a real train.

    For me TSW2 will be bought on day 1, installed on the same day and played on the next day after work, when my weekend has started.
    Like I said, back in the days I started with RT only and his BR 442. Now we start with the same loco but not only this! We have the long-wanted ICE, the community yelled for like 2 years since TSW first came out!

    I suggest, that we let this come over us and try to enjoy it. Give it some time and patience. If we waited another 6 months or even 3... there's still time to say "I'm sick of this, let's play TrainFever on Android!"
    Don't mean to argue with someone, since you can all say what you think, but now it's all just speculations. I tried it once. I was hoping the route would be Cologne-Frankfurt... Was a slap in the face, but I learned my lesson. Until it's not officially stated, it's all speculations and nonsense. You can hope, you can think of something big, but don't expect to much. Not from DTG, not from EA, not from Rockstar, etc. to name a few...

    Hope my point was understandable :D

    Greetings everyone!
     
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  42. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    I hope so. I need convincing though.
     
  43. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Loved your post - it is always nice to see un-restrained positivity in action....! Regarding some specific points:

    - Yes, I think Rapid Transit is under-rated..... this is a really good DLC (I think it got slammed because of lack of freight....?)
    - If you are on PS4, then the DB BR 155 has now been fixed, and it now works in tunnels on RSN.... ;-)
    - I must remember to use "Schwamm drüber" when I speak to my German friends, when they start complaining about things... ;-)
     
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  44. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Member

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    Indeed more traffic would give the RT-Soup the needed salt, but you must admit that besides freight there is not much you can add. Maybe a little regio-trouble around Leipzig, but it wouldn't be much variation in trains.
    Same with MSB as 'Starter'. You could add some trains, but either they are from another company or not useful enough for future plans.
    Cologne-Aachen could be the first starter, where it is possible to add much trains that are suitable in future routes.

    My problem with the BR 155 and BR 204 is, that I don't share any excitement for those two, but that is just my problem, not DTG's.
    I must admit, that I wasn't aware of the sound issue until I read the complaints of a certain person here, who is not mentioned...! but well known :D

    Keep that quote in mind, because you will need it more than you think... :D (Germans like to complain, but sssssht... I didn't say that)
     
  45. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes - RT is a great combo of express plus some aggressive metro-style driving through Leipzig. There is nothing else like it in TSW (but there is plenty on offer in TS1... on SLN). However, when the Bakerloo Line comes..... anyone with Peninsular Corridor (and it's varied service pattern) and the Bakerloo Line... won't really get anything extra from RT.... and the Talent will be available out of Cologne, trying to keep up with the ICE. What's not to like...?

    NB: The Leipzig stations often appear to be lined with timber wall panelling decoration - is that true in real-life...? Looks like a fire-hazard to me.... Nothing under the ground should be flammable... never ever.... the most flammable items on an underground train or station should be the passengers and their luggage (BTW - I am not joking.... this is really the case on LUL.... in the modern day....).
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  46. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I like that i can have AI traffic without having to fuss with the game too much. Yes, it can get repetitive to some degree (which i think can be improved upon), but, especially, using journey mode i can jump into a train i want to drive, and let the time of day and weather be the "random" factor that challenges/surprises me. Again, hopefully this is improved upon in TSW2 with the improved adhesion simulation making the challenge more than just poor visibility lol. From loading up the game, I can be driving within about a minute- it's very convenient. Sometimes i also just like to plonk down somewhere and watch the trains go by while i'm messing around on my phone or whatever- again TSW makes this very easy.

    Don't get me wrong, there are some great scenario creators out there for TS, but every time i fire it up i find myself spending more time (re)downoading mods, tweaking configurations, searching for that one final piece of DLC that i need for this scenario (oh, wait, it's now-delisted payware from 2013, let's all over start again), than actually driving trains. I'm older and just don't have the patience for it anymore.

    I realize it's a personal preference, and understand why some people are frustrated that TSW isn't just the same as TS, but with fancier graphics. But, for me, it hits the sweet spot.
     
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  47. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes, of course. Thank you for the answer. I only ask out of interest - to understand what people like, and why they like it. As it happens... I quite like both TSW and TS1.... for very different reasons. Leaving aside TS1..... when it comes to TSW... I have to be honest... I find the repeating pattern of services potentially a bit dull - it would be improved if the AP system was effective.... However... it becomes easier to deal with it if you have lots of DLCs....

    So...... my pattern (on TSW) would be to run about ten services, each at a different time of day, and cycle through the weather options (I tend to like dawn/dusk/night-time and/or rain/snow, but I will do a little dry summer as well). And then I won't touch that DLC at all for weeks/months. Then I cycle through the DLCs that I own with a similar pattern. Then.... by the time I get to the first DLC again, I have to "re-acquaint" myself with the loco controls/features/performance, the route itself, the signalling system, etc. If I find the re-introduction way too easy, then I increase the difficulty... switch off the markers, etc... and switch on more and more of the safety systems.... and then the game gets deeper and deeper... ;-)

    NB: It's a major flaw in the game "environment" that you have to do this "difficulty" adjustment on your own initiative, and know/understand what the implications are for gameplay.... it effectively excludes a lot of players that might need a little more guidance/steer (or even any documented/tipped indication of these features......) ...in order to understand the full depth that is on offer, even with TSW...... (which could include going as far as incredibly detailed route learning for foggy/blizzard conditions...).

    NB2: Of course - all of the above applies to TS1 as well.... but with TS1 it doesn't take as much cash to acquire a vast number of routes, rolling stock and scenarios.... so with TS1..... I literally just dip into one route.... then move on to the next route... I am still in the "getting a taster" stage for each route... (I spent a heck of lot of cash in the March/May sales on Steam...).

    NB3: I am currently in a TSW phase..... which is lucky... with the Class 20 coming up..... I try to exclusively use a DS4 controller or gamepad (on PC).... and if you switch between TSW and TS1 too much... you get into trouble... because the power/brake buttons are reversed whenever you switch..... ;-O

    ======>>>>
    To get back on topic though.... (and this was all leading somewhere...).... the inclusion of adhesion in TSW2 should be the game-changer... and if this is included with a decent (tested) scoring system, and depending on how the "log-book" works... the replayability of TSW2 might well improve massively - as long as the player can interact with these features and sensibly understand their performance under various conditions, and how to try to improve it. A skill game. A simulator.

    Properly implemented adhesion alone..... could make TSW2 a must buy. Especially at £25 (with an art utility attached to it)..... ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  48. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Plastic Pal you make a lot of good points there. The in-game documentation is woeful- i think they'd really benefit from having a technical writer and/or illustrator on the staff. Maps with speed limits and gradient profiles should at least be included in the manual, even if they can't manage having it in the game itself.

    Also agree about there being things TS does better- it's baffling to me that TSW still doesn't have tracks labeled in the in-game map, when the labels clearly already exist in the game (just look at the debrief screen). Just one example.

    Funnily enough i tend to play TSW pretty similarly to you, cycling between routes every few days or so after it's gotten too monotonous on the one i'm playing. I only have TSW on Xbox (my PC can barely handle TS), so i play exclusively with the controller- i limit myself to only using the in-cab controls (other than door controls in some locos), which also adds some challenge and immersion. I also make myself get out and throw manual switches, maybe i'm just a masochist?

    Your point about service mode being more interesting if you have lots of DLC seems right- admittedly i'm a TSWhale, i've bought all content except the CL52, and so that probably makes running TVL, or MSB more appealing than it would be for someone who only has the base routes. Especially when the DLC actually adds NEW services to the route (why i'm still looking forward to the CL20 release).

    My biggest worry about TSW2 is starting from scratch and routes going back to being very empty. I'm hoping HH will keep me busy until things start to fill up again. If not, at least TSW is still there.
     
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  49. andref.maccarini

    andref.maccarini Member

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    No.

    I'm not interested in the routes and track adhesion is far from enough physics improvements to justify my purchase.
     
  50. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    I'm interested in the routes TSW2
     

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