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Would You Be Interested In New York City Subway?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by JackRyan, Jun 13, 2020.

  1. JackRyan

    JackRyan Member

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    Well, with TSW2 introducing for the first time a subway line made by DTG, I wonder if this can become something regular and we might eventually get to see a NYC subway line.

    I'm not gonna go into what line I should want because I'd say all, but I think this might be popular given that between TS and TSW we had very popular add on in the New York area.

    I know that you can play world of subways, but I'd like to see something focused on modern period and without german accent on the way LOL

    What do you think?
     
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  2. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    no like usa subwy
     
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  3. Deebz__

    Deebz__ Active Member

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    I'd sooner be interested in them improving one of their existing NY routes, rather than continuing their current trend of releasing new half baked routes and seldom going back to improve them.
     
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  4. JohnnyK98

    JohnnyK98 Well-Known Member

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    I've always wanted to drive a subway, it's been a dream of mine.
     
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  5. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    I'd love an NY subway route. The Far Rockaway line (The "A Train") would be my preference as it has nice variety along the way.
     
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  6. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I would actually like a subway line in TSW, especially in the NYC area, or in Manhattan or some other area. Regarding the first subway in TSW, it’s actually really cool that we get to drive underground trains for the first time! Another subway line would be great.:)
     
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  7. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Hell yeah, either New York subway or Chicago L train.
     
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  8. SaMa1

    SaMa1 Member

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    Definitely if they implement the station emergency exit doors with that nice alarm sound that causes hearing damage! It should be randomly on and off on every station to bring the authentic NYC subway atmosphere.
     
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  9. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    NY Subway? Nah! I already bought the Brooklyn bridge and Prince Albert in a can!
     
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  10. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Active Member

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    the faredodgers gate, classic
     
  11. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    I think whether or not a NYC Subway line should be developed largely depends on how the upcoming Bakerloo line is handled. Especially considering how DTG manages tunnels this time around.

    Looking back at the LIRR DLC, driving through the long tunnels sections near Penn Station or Atlantic Terminal always kind of felt boring actually, since it was largely the same sort of long structure with repeating textures. There was always that sense of relief when you finally did surface on the other end, since there was finally a change in scenery.

    With this in mind, I totally agree that the A line should be a top contender, because it's a line with a lot of varying scenery and is the longest line in the NYC subway system if im not mistaken? That way it isn't just constant tunnels, but you also get some overground sections as well!
     
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  12. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I actually kinda enjoy the long tunnel parts of the LIRR, but I have to agree, looking at real life cab rides from the route it's obvious that in real life there is much more going on in the tunnels than in game.

    For example the tunnel between Jamaica and East New York looks pretty similar, but in real life around the middle there is a part where some more room opens up inside and there are access tunnels and other stuff going on, also at one point a diverging tunnel is visible (remains of an old, now unused tunnel?).
     
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  13. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    No... in fact, thrice no!... Not my cup of tea old boy!
     
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  14. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    I think thats an excellent point made there, and it just strengthens the fact that we'll have to wait and see how DTG does it in the upcoming Bakerloo line for TSW2. Are they going to just use the same repeating textures with little variance, or will there be- like you mentioned -things like access tunnels or various other little bits scattered throughout the tunnels?
    Theres not a whole lot that goes into these sort of structures, but when you're driving along in the tunnels it really helps to have little points of references to gauge where you are, and how fast you're going, as I'm sure that is something that drivers look out for in the real world. Its arguably a fundamental experience for subway driving, so we'll just have to see if the Bakerloo route nails it in this aspect.
     
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  15. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Yes! Yes! Yes!

    How can you be a train enthusiast and not be interested in the New York Subway?
     
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  16. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    In the same way that I can be Truimph motorcycle enthusiast but not be interested in a Honda 50... hello?
     
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  17. CaptHart

    CaptHart New Member

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    I would be interested and I have always enjoyed the NYC DLCs released so far.
     
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  18. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    So the LIRR isn't a sudo subway itself?Just above ground.
     
  19. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    That’s right. LIRR is not part of the NYC Subway network, but is still operated by MTA.
     
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  20. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well the LIRR barely has any underground sections to begin with. Most are overground or elevated. And even though it's using more and more EMUs now, traditional locomotive powered trains and freight are also present on the LIRR.

    It does feel a bit subway-ish with the EMUs and the third rails, but it isn't one.
     
  21. HamioSamio098

    HamioSamio098 Member

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    I would think of the LIRR as an S-Bahn route or the London Overground because there is a mixture of length between stops and has some underground sections. Also, wouldn't the LIRR be classified as commuter rail?
     
  22. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    like hong kong subway
     
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  23. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Active Member

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    Oooh Instead of collectables we could have a built in Where's Wally game.
    Find the hidden Trumps at every stop....

    How about the Moscow underground? Some of those stations are awesome.
     
  24. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I’d love to drive the NY Subway system but I’ve watched plenty of World of Subways to know we wouldn’t get anywhere close to that level of awesomeness.
     
  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The new York City subway is something that for dtg would be difficult to make since they are several lines that run along each other like the 4,5 and 6 trains and then go their sepreate ways. So if they would to make it then they would have to find a way to make all those full connecting lines which they probably wouldn't do
     
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  26. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    They could do something like what happened with the LIRR, where they found a way to connect like 3 different lines in one route, all with branch lines of course.
     
  27. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested in a route from the NY subway as long as it isn't 100% underground as that would be quite boring with nothing to look at.

    I had the same reservations with the Bakerloo line at first...but at least it has an overground part from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The long island railroad failed on showing how busy the route is because you had two lines, The Hempstead Branch and the Ronkonkoma Branch. The Belmont Park service is part of the Hempstead branch. The LIRR was a failure in terms of showing how busy it is
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The only full underground lines in New York City subway are the C,E and R trains along with the 42 street shuttle, all the other lines do go outside at some point of their lines
     
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  30. kylel098783

    kylel098783 New Member

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    Tallboy listed the lines that are actually underground.I can tell you all the other lines at some point go overground .I do hope DTG will stick too routes that are underground & then overground.
     
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  31. kylel098783

    kylel098783 New Member

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    Many subway stations are interesting they have some back story behind the signs & the stations
     
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  32. kylel098783

    kylel098783 New Member

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    You couldn't be more right I mean they only use 3 types of models but making the whole lexington av line trains would be hard but you know it's DTG so who knows what they will do.I mean I have rode the lexington ave line the stations look nice but remember it's NYC so the station hygiene is bad
     
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  33. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    That was simply because of the bad timetable mode though, nothing to do with the route itself. There are just way too few services included in the timetable.
     
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  34. kylel098783

    kylel098783 New Member

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    I hope they don't make this mistake again if your trying too simulate the london underground the route is suppose to be busy not 1 train per hour.Same for the LIRR you can't just have 3 trains per hour in penn stations that not busy so I hope DTG could fix this
     
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  35. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Well the reason that the LIRR DLC didn't have much rail traffic wasn't because DTG was being incompetent or whatever. It was purely for performance reasons.
    Its not exactly hard to add more trains onto a scheduled timetable, but theres a balance that they need to be careful with. Unfortunately the M7 model's are quite performance-intensive in game. If you were to have the full LIRR timetable in TSW, it would be an absolute lag-fest.

    The newer routes feel a bit more alive with more traffic only because the models they create are a bit more performance friendly, your FPS doesn't drop dramatically when another train passes by like in the LIRR DLC.

    Anyhow... when we finally get the Bakerloo line, I suspect we'll see a timetable thats far busier than the current ones we have. Besides, it's underground, which means less scenery objects, which means more performance headroom, which hopefully means more trains???
    I'm only speculating of course, we'll have to wait and see how that goes :)
     
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  36. kylel098783

    kylel098783 New Member

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    But what about MSB it had a lot of traffic.I might be mistaken but was MSB the busiest route in TSW
     
  37. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Right, though Main Spessart Bahn was released a couple of months after LIRR, and accompanied a few new features along with it (if im not mistaken it was the first route with cars on the road, as well as banking ops in TSW).
    Its not exactly fair to compare the two, as MSB was much improved compared to LIRR. Along with the aforementioned new features, MSB simply just ran a lot better and was quite a bit more optimized. Whereas the M7's on the LIRR route were really demanding on performance.

    They could run more services on MSB (passenger and freight services), but still have rather good performance. I reckon this comes down to the development team just improving and getting better at optimizing scenery and the train modeling. New techniques, as they say.

    Looking at the last couple of DLC releases, I think its safe to say that there's been more and more traffic compared to earlier DLC. Its reasonable to assume that the Bakerloo line (and perhaps maybe a future NYC Subway route?) would have a pretty decent timetable. Its all speculation, of course.
     
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  38. kylel098783

    kylel098783 New Member

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    Yeah I hope DTG is learning there mistakes with traffic & how long the route is.But who knows what they will do
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's ironic since they supposedly use the real life timetables in the game, I guess that's truly not the case.
     
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They've could've updated the performance of the LIRR. As Matt says anything is possible
     
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  41. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not.
     
  42. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    It does have plenty of traffic in scenarios though, yet it's running fine? So I doubt. But even if it was performance reasons for the bad timetable, at the end it's still the result of incompetence if you can't make your game run fine.

    Anyway my take on the case of LIRR is that they had to use such a lame timetable because the ATC/signalling is buggy and can't handle busy traffic. I mean there are already cases of bad train routing and near misses because the ATC just doesn't work like it should be. Imagine what would happen with more traffic. Performance might be another reason though, I agree, because it's true that the frames drop quite a bit when passing another train, but in scenarios even the busy parts seem to run fine.
     
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  43. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested as long as they can make it seem believably busy- Bakerloo will be a good test case.

    If it's more like LIRR, no thanks, as much as i like the setting
     
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  44. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Well actually the interesting thing about this is that there may seem like there's more traffic in the scenarios, but believe it or not those are dummy trains. Take a closer look at them. The dead-giveaway is that they have pitch-black windows, slightly lower resolution, and they don't move at all. These weird trains don't even have an interior! They're hollow boxes made to look like an M7, and they only appear in places like the Hudson Yards or those tracks besides Jamaica Station.

    As far as im aware, this is actually unique to the LIRR DLC, as you don't see mockup trains in any other DLC released by Dovetail. You only see them in scenarios. In fact, they've even modeled those coach carriages used on the Amtrak NEC trains, you can spot them in Sunnyside Yards and sometimes at Penn!

    The point here is that DTG used these fake models to help increase performance in scenarios, since they don't have to render a whole entire M7 trainset, they just use dummy models to fill up the yards. The other M7's you see moving around are indeed full trainsets driven by AI.
    Frankly, they do look bad, but I think its kind of hilarious that they went with this approach. It does fool you into believing theres more traffic! Its a shame you don't see them in service mode, even though you can't even utilize those tracks anyways!
     
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  45. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Ah, and as for the timetables, they say that they're based on the real ones. But obviously this game isn't anywhere near capable of running a full LIRR timetable, so the timing might actually be somewhat close to real life, but theres obviously certain services omitted. You dont see trains heading to Babylon, or Far Rockaway, Port Jefferson, etc. That- for all intents and purposes -is the reason why the route feels pretty dead. As for the branches that are indeed fully modeled in game, such as the Hempstead branch, I believe those do follow somewhat closely to the real timetable, but I'm honestly not 100% sure.

    Then you also have to take into account that the dispatcher in game preeeeeetty much does its own thing, which could impact the timing as well.
    I've driven on the route in-game a lot and know it like the back of my hand.... That being said I'm not really inclined to believe its an issue with the ATC. I've only ever done like one or two SPADs, and its mainly at that bit between Queens Village and Bellrose, where you'll likely be switching tracks. The blocks are reeeeally packed in tight together, so you need to be on your toes at that section. Anywhere else isn't really a problem, ATC does as its supposed to do.

    I don't think there's really any incompetence going on here, the fact of the matter is that the LIRR route is very poorly optimized in terms of performance when you compare it to other routes. Try booting up East Coastway and you'll see what I mean. The newer routes are much better optimized and feel as though they have more traffic overall. I believe this just comes down to the developers having better experience over time.

    Can Dovetail go back and update the LIRR route? Sure they can! Its totally possible. But will they do it? Ehhhhhh, most likely not. The way it is now is possibly the way it'll remain, perhaps until they get the sudden urge to develop a new branch or something, I don't know :P
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The Hempstead branch timetable is completely unrealistic as a person who does take that branch in real life because Hempstead branch trains don't go to Penn Station every 45 minutes after a hour. Hempstead branch trains go to Penn station during peak rush hour times only. All other trains go to Alantic Terminal Brooklyn and trains that go to Alantic Terminal are 8 cars not 6 so the timetable is completely unrealistic
     
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  47. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    I just took a look through the timetable pamphlet and it does look to me like the trains depart from Penn to Hempstead roughly once every 45 minutes to an hour, but during peak times it's a different story. I usually frequent the Babylon branch irl, so I'm not sure if there's something weird with the timetables going on here :P
    I'm just basing it off what I'm seeing.

    As for the thing with Atlantic Terminal, I'm not entirely sure but I think the platform lengths aren't accurate to real life? Because if we do indeed stick an 8-car M7 into Atlantic Terminal in-game, the train is much longer than the platform, whiiiiiich would be odd to see.
    Again, these aren't really the routes I've been on irl, so I can't say for certain whats accurate and whats not. Perhaps DTG did the station modeling wrong, who knows

    //Edit: I was trying to post the link to the timetable here but that doesn't seem to be working. A quick Google search should suffice. My point here is that I do think that the timetable is indeed reasonably accurate to what we see irl. Theres a single train each hour going both directions from Penn to Hempstead, off-peak.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
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  48. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Oh I wasn't talking about the static M7 modells seen on the sidings, but actual traffic. Compare your avarage timetable mode run and a scenaro run, and there will be much more traffic around you in scenarios, especially at Jamaica with trains going to and from all directions. Of course in scenarios everything is pre-scripted and train all around the route are not present and simulated, only the ones around you that are needed to make the scenario. Compared to that in service mode every train always needs to be simulated somewhat, even if they are 40 miles away from you.

    The reason I think the ATC is bad because it doesn't handle any close call situation well. There are a few services where it'll allow you to keep going at 80mph just for you to end up rear ending an another train. It starts beeping and showing you 15mph but by then it's too late and don't have time to stop. Sure the actual signal shows a yellow beforehand, which could be a sign for you to slow down, but as far as I know, with ATC on you can ignore the usual signal limits (so even if a yellow for example would mean "slow down to 30mph" originally, you are allowed to go faster if ATC tells you so).
    There is also an M3 scenario where it'll go from 60mph to 15mph then back to 60mph in like less than 10 seconds, as you are running right behind an another train.
    Realistically it should gradually tell you to slow down as you get too close to other trains, but it's not happening in game. It's either go-all-out-at-80mph or SLOW-DOWN-TO-15MPH-QUICKY, pretty much ignoring the rest of the available speed restriction options between 80mph and 30mph. Sometimes there will be a 60 at some places, but it's always at the same places and never depends on traffic.

    So to me it feels like ATC just doesn't work like it should. It's kind of acceptable with current traffic levels, but I don't think it could handle a busier timetable. Also AI trains don't use the ATC and alerters at all on the LIRR, even though I believe they do on some other routes?

    By the way I think the static scenery rolling stock is a great and performance friendly touch, and I think they should implement them for more routes to populate sidings and such.
     
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  49. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Ah, well in that case then, I think you're certainly right ahhah :D

    The thing is, usually outside of scenarios you really don't encounter another train going in the same direction you are *cough* because certain branch lines are omitted *cough*. Hell, I think its an amazing occurrence when it does indeed happen lol

    I'll agree with you, the ATC does feel a bit jerky in these specific circumstances, but come to think of it I never had a SPAD because another train was occupying the section in front of the one I'm in, rather it was for track changes. You get the usual step down from line speed (80 MPH) down to under 40 MPH, and finally 15 MPH, whiiiiiich should allow you some time to slow the train down. But it does feel like the block sections could receive a bit more padding and distance.

    Its enough for the current state of the LIRR route in TSW, but if the traffic were to be increased, I definitely could see more SPADs occurences as a result. Some more work could go into it.

    With that being said its nice to have that added challenge of having to keep to a timetable while also being stuck behind another train. It's kind of why I look forward to seeing the Bakerloo line in TSW2, and perhaps a future NYC subway release. With better optimization for more traffic on the rails, it's possible to see this happening more and more as an experience. Lets just hope the signaling is also improved upon :)
     
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  50. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there have indeed been some spottings of Amtrak single level passenger cars in LIRR, based on what I’ve seen on Xbox live. Yes, you are correct, those are dummy models. Resembling a real Amtrak train on the exterior (besides the fact that it doesn’t even have a loco on either side of the train!), free camera moves around those cars have seen that the doors are inoperative, and when close you can see that the trains are completely hollow on the inside! As for the M7s themselves I haven’t seen any of those I’ve just noticed that someone posted a game clip showcasing these “dummy cars”.
     

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