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Would You Be Interested In New York City Subway?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by JackRyan, Jun 13, 2020.

  1. QNS Chris

    QNS Chris Active Member

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    A different view - I am a daily (or at least was pre-COVID) rider & monthly ticket holder of the LIRR and the IRT 2,3 / Shuttle. I absolutely love the TSW LIRR route, and cannot wait for it to be added to TSW2 via the Preserved Collection. I play the TSW LIRR on a regular basis and alternate between the M7 and M3. My 14 month old son recognizes the sound of M7 in-game, which he connects to our station when we go rail-fanning. It's awesome.

    I feel DTG did an absolutely fantastic job with LIRR - nailing each city terminal (even Hunterspoint!), including the Hempstead branch, and taking the route all the way to Hicksville. My only criticisms are - like several others - a) the lack of traffic, b) thequality of the East River tunnels (they're inconsistent at points in terms of sound), and c) the bare-bones, generalized design of Penn Station. I realize that the decision to make Penn as it is boils down to allocating resources - in that vein, I am happy that resources were allocated elsewhere and the route is large as i is. That aside, the route is splendid, and it's pretty fantastic that DTG endeavored to create it, in addition to the other Tri-State commuter operations.

    I was somewhat skeptical walking into the Bakerloo Line, as I didn't know how well a rapid transit / subway route would work in TSW, and given the tunnel issues I have with LIRR. In addition, I sincerely enjoyed (and still enjoy) the Aerosoft World of Subways (WoS) Circle Line, and used that as my baseline for evaluating the Bakerloo Line. After playing the Bakerloo Line in and out, and given my experience with LIRR and MNR /NJT, I am 100% confident that DTG would blow a NYCT route out of the water. On Bakerloo, DTG has done an excellent job with the gameplay, the '72 stock, tunnel dynamics, sound, and atmosphere. In addition, they have far exceeded the WoS games - the engine is more reliable, the UI is polished and intuitive, the physics are far more realistic, and the overall experience is better.

    I sincerely hope DTG has plans for a NYCT route - after seeing what they've done with the Bakerloo Line, I have no doubt they would exceed every expectation modeling my beloved subway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The Environment around the Long Island Railroad route was unrealistic as hell. Apart from stations which were modelled somewhat accurately except for Penn station and the unrealistically bright Alantic Terminal Brooklyn. On the Hempstead Branch from Floral Park to Hempstead there would be large trees on both sides of the track so you shouldn't be able to see the houses. The M3 sounds are unrealistic as well except for the bell. It's a joke that they recycled sounds from the M7 to the M3 and saying it sounds realistic. I've been on a m3. They modeled the m3 realistically though although the interior is a bit narrower than in real life. If you watch a video of the Long Island Railroad train ride in real life then in the game, the difference is bizarre in terms of the outside surroundings and I know they didn't have access to the route but they could've gotten third party sources to at least model it correctly. It's like they didn't even bother hence why I doubt they would do a good job making a new york city subway line. Perhaps dtg shouldn't advertise that tsw routes are modeled realistically when a route like the Long Island Railroad clearly wasn't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  3. QNS Chris

    QNS Chris Active Member

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    To each their own. The route certainly isn't 'perfect', but seldom have I found much in life that is. Given that I am a daily commuter on the Port Washington branch - both M3s and M7s - I don't need to rely on a video to certify the route's authenticity. As far as train simulators go, this is about as close as it gets to the real thing.
    As a New Yorker and LIRR rider, I greatly appreciate the love and detail that the DTG team put into the route, the trains, and my beautiful City - from the towers of Long Island City to the big Public Storage buildings and shopping centers at the beginning / end of Harold Interlocking at the NE Corridor split approach to the Hell Gate. Additionally, the level and attention to detail at Woodside, with its platform-level entrances and 7 train mezzanine - very, very fine work. They also captured the brooding, foreboding character of the East NY station on the Atlantic Branch; not a place you'd want to find yourself late at night, but modeled very realistically.
    It's no wonder that the MTA allowed DTG license to use their branding - well earned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  4. stinkyheadsman

    stinkyheadsman Member

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    Nah m8. they would ruin it, sorry to say that
     
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  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree especially how bad of a job they did with the m3 sounds and I take the LIRR a lot. I'm suprised dtg didn't tint the windows on the m7 like they are in real life because in real life on the m7, you wouldn't really be able to see the windows unless it's night time or if you're close to the train because of the window tint
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  6. stinkyheadsman

    stinkyheadsman Member

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    I think that small things would be missing too, such as tripcock animations. Platform clipping does happen at dtg as well. Hate to be Mr. negative, but it ain't gonna be good if it comes. Sorry dtg.
     
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  7. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    So I've mentioned numerous times beforehand that I would love to see how DTG pulls off the Bakerloo route, and use that to gage how they might do a NYCT subway route...well..now after having played a handful of services on Bakerloo, I'm left feeling that there could definitely be room for improvement.

    I think one of the biggest downsides to Bakerloo is the sounds. I dont know if its just something on my end, but when I'm stopped at a station its usually just dead quiet. That does actually kill immersion. The motor sounds feel rather generic, theres just not a whole lot going on.

    If there were to be a NYC Subway DLC, the sounds would have to be one of those things that they have to nail. Its loud down there in the tunnels. Theres got to be a lot more ambient chatter. Much more of those metallic screeching noises. In my opinion, thats what really sells the feeling of being on a subway, not just the physics or volume of traffic.

    All being said, I still do actually want to see them tackle more metro routes. Driving through the Bakerloo Line sure is a nice change of pace
     
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  8. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Member

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    Definitely yes. Do the F line from Coney Island to Manhattan. Its got elevated, over ground, under ground, under the river.
     
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  9. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Member

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    Physics and sound are things that bring you closer to reality. There is still work to do. I really look forward to progress.
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    As a person who lives in nyc of they were to make a subway line it has to be the full line. Like if they were to make the F Train which goes from Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn to Jamaica 179th Street in Queens, I would want the entire line. Not part of it because we can't keep getting non full line routes especially for the New York City subway and I also think with what they did with the Bakerloo line in terms of sound, dtg would do a horrible job with sounds on the New York City subway system
     
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  11. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Member

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    You could add the Jamaica airport extension too tallboy7648 with the tramway to the airport
    They could probably get the sounds right but people might not like getting deafened by the flange squeals ;)
    To do it properly you'd need 100F air blasted at you every fourth or fifth station too.
     
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  12. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Only if the majority of the route is above ground. I think the underground section on the Bakerloo line is way too long and boring, but the aboveground section is enjoyable. The underground section on Rapid Transit is about the right length IMO, wouldn't mind if it were a tad shorter.
     
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  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The only subway line that is mostly aboveground is the 7 train which goes from 34th Street- Hudson Yards to Flushing Main Street. World of subways 4 has the 7 train in there game. I don't believe picking a subway line that's mostly aboveground would be fair
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They would have to get the air train license in order to make the Air train to JFK Airport. The airtrain isn't part of the MTA New York City Subway or even operated by the MTA itself
     
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  15. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    It has nothing to do with being fair. While you may be interested in underground routes, I prefer aboveground routes. If the Bakerloo Line had timetable services that would only operate on the aboveground section of the route, those would probably be the only services I'd drive. I think the underground section is too boring and repetitive. But that's just my opinion.

    OP asks if I'm interested in a NYC subway line. If it's underground, I'm not. If It's above ground, I am.
     
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  16. stinkyheadsman

    stinkyheadsman Member

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    Yes. Bombardier built and operates the trains, which are FULLY AUTOMATIC and DRIVERLESS! In other words, this is completely off the table.
     
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  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well all of the nyc subway lines do go underground at some point. Some are mostly underground. Some lines are fully underground. The 7 train runs mostly aboveground but in Queens only. No NYC subway line is fully above ground except for the Rockaway Park Shuttle and no subway train runs above ground in Manhattan except for the 1 train in Northern Manhattan in certain areas. So I don't know if you would be interested in having the entire New York City subway system unless you're interested in the Rockaway Park Shuttle which runs from Broad Channel to Rockaway Park Beach 116th street in Queens. It's fully above ground but it only has 5 stations. It runs on the branch line of The A train to Rockaway Park. It's a important line because the A train which is the Subway's longest line only goes to Rockaway Park during weekday rush hour times so when the A train doesn't go to Rockaway Park, you would have to get the Shuttle to Rockaway Park. The A train mainly Runs from Inwood 207th Street Station in Upper Manhattan to Far Rockaway-Mott Avenue in Southeastern Queens. The A train also runs from Inwood 207th Street to Ozone Park-Lefferts Boulevard in Queens. I don't want dtg to make part of a nyc subway line
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
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  18. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind a few underground stations, like LIRR and Rapid Transit have.
    But I think the Bakerloo Line went too far and the underground section of the route becomes boring and repetitive after 5 stations or so.
     
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  19. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh it kinda does, the worst part of the Bakerloo Line is how dead it is with a lack of passengers. A shame dtg haven't gotten that sorted
     
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  20. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    And the fact that it still doesn’t have station announcements: the next train to elephant & castle arrives in 2 minutes, please make sure you have all your personal belongings with you when boarding the train, thank you for riding on the London Underground, and the on board train announcements: “our last stop, elephant & castle, is coming up shortly, please make sure you have all your belongings with you and have you tickets ready for inspection once leaving the train. Thanks for riding with the London Underground.” pretty much adds to the lifelessness of the Bakerloo line.
     
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  21. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Well it wouldn’t be called the “London Underground” if the majority or all of the stations were above ground wouldn’t it? But yes I also think that the underground part becomes boring and repetitive, especially with the slow speed limits.
     
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  22. NYIslanders0902

    NYIslanders0902 Member

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    Yes!!! It would make my day if they add it in TSW 2!!!
     
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and the new york city subway has station announcements and in train announcements as well so if they were to add the subway system, I would want announcements otherwise dtg would've failed to capture the environment of the NYC subway
     
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  24. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Member

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    The NYC MTA subway is more interesting than Bakerloo - the tunnels are (mostly) cut and cover except under the rivers and often have three or even four tracks side by side so there's plenty to see. The stations are also a lot more interesting as most of them are quite open where you can see all the platforms with only columns blocking the view.
     
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  25. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Member

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    You'd need some of the subway creatures too - rats, ducks and of course the very special humans that ride. See instagram @subwaycreatures if you have no idea what I'm talking about :)
     
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  26. michael hooley

    michael hooley Active Member

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    Looks like the idea is popular, but I would not buy it.
     
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  27. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Ditto,
    Tunnel walls have little visual delights.
     
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  28. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    Some of us like the dark, troglodyte life underground.
     
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  29. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Believe they are called Trolls. ;D
     
  30. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    Well if DTG were to make one of these routes they would actually have to include the lights in the tunnel (You can actually see in the tunnels yes on the NYC subway crazy right but I bet DTG would mess it up)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  31. ixofxiii

    ixofxiii Active Member

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    I would indeed like to see them do an NYC Subway route. I'm satisfied with LIRR and I ride it frequently. And as a former NYC subway conductor, I really wanna see how DTG pulls it off. I'm enjoying the Bakerloo line.
     
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  32. ixofxiii

    ixofxiii Active Member

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    As far as what route, well, I do want the A. Bit the whole route is about 1:45 (Inwood to Far Rock) and about 1:20-ish Inwood to Lefferts. For a mostly outside route, the J/Z would work. Especially with it's peak express/skip stop pattern. Mostly underground, the 6 would have a nice balance. Local in Manhattan, with local and express in the Bronx. Plus, it's already kinda famous from Pelham 123. Now if they decide to go with a fully underground route, I say go with the E.
     
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  33. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Member

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    If honestly, why not? I watching so many movies about US, and i will with pleasure drive NYC subway in game)
     
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I rather have dovetail add perhaps the entire system at once because alot of the subway lines are connected and if they were just gonna add one line like the 6 train and not the 4 and 5 train on the Lexington Avenue Line which is the most busiest in the system, it would fail to capture the true nature of the subway system
     
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think they would mess up the tunnel textures and lighting in the nyc subway. Hell the textures they used for the Bakerloo Line tunnels are completely wrong. Also in the nyc subway it has lights in the tunnels so the operator can see and so maintenance workers who need to do work can see
     
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  36. HappyBasher

    HappyBasher Member

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    The bakerloo line is underground in real life. I'd be well p'ed off if they'd cut it off at Paddington. Originally the line went much further north, to Watford Junction and yes I agree it would have been even more interesting if it went that far, but it most certainly needs the entire underground section!
    Besides, you can't really call the tunnel section repetitive, not with those speed changes where you get a sudden reduction to 20 just after you've accelerated to 30, and the gradients, there is a lot to it.
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is amazing that DTG bashing has got to the point where they are now being moaned at for messing up routes that don't even exist!

    They are constantly being moaned at for building short routes and now one of these short routes is too long! Unbelievable!
     
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  38. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I know the Bakerloo line is underground in real life, and I know a London Underground route had been requested pretty often, so I don't mind DTG filing in that request. It's still not my cup of tea though. It's a route different to anything we had before, and unique in that way. That's cool. I still prefer aboveground routes and I don't think I'd be really willing to buy another underground route, which was pretty much the question asked by OP.

    There's a lot to do and to pay attention to, yes. But the black tunnels and pretty similar stations (although they all have something unique) doesn't really offer much variety in landscape. It's just a personal preference. Aside from having stuff to do, I can also appreciate a nice landscape and interesting scenery. That's just something that an underground route doesn't offer, despite being realistic.
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well you don't have to play the Bakerloo line or buy future subway routes then
     
  40. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Active Member

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    I would tend to agree that the Bakerloo isn't the most interesting tube line, though Waterloo & City and Victoria are far worse. But I think it was the one most likely to appear in TSW.

    I would have loved the District as it's my old local line (1972-1993) but there's absolutely no way it's appearing in TSW. I'm happy with the TSW2 Bakerloo Line, I think it took some nerve to do it with the DTG rebuild of TSW. The easy option would have been a branch line in the 80s so I doff my cap to Dovetail.
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think the Victoria Line would be a cool line
     
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  42. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I hope we don't see another UK underground route for a while, whilst the Bakerloo is well done, apart from maybe the sounds, it doesn't have the replay value that some routes have. For me it is the sort of route that after the initial excitement I will visit it every couple of months where as routes like the TVL I could run a couple of times a week. Still its horses for courses and we are all different.
     
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  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I hope we get more underground routes or more subway routes in general
     
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  44. subwayvaughn

    subwayvaughn Active Member

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    The Victoria and the District Line would be "way" cool.
     
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Agree
     
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  46. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I loved World of Subways and I'd like to see more underground routes. A NYC one would be great, but DTG should learn from Aerosoft how to make good tunnels. In Bakerloo Line they're just too empty and flat... A subway tunnel should be dirty, really dirty. NYC subway tunnels are also full of lights and would be a nice chance to show more details.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  47. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    That's what I mean, Circle Line from World of Subways 3 (2011). Compare it to the TSW2 Bakerloo Line tunnels, almost ten years later...

    20200920_234403.jpg
     
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  48. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Well to be fair, the Circle Line is a sub-surface rail line (I think the tunnels were built in a cut-and-cover manner?), while the Bakerloo Line is a deep-level tube. So the way they look in each game is actually how they look irl

    Its not even much of a comparison anyways. The tunnels are wider and there's more room on the Circle Line, so there's more space for things to get dirty. Theres random things strewn around, and TML did a pretty good job at recreating the tunnels in WoS 3.
    But the tunnels in the Bakerloo line are much more tighter, allowing just enough space for the train to travel through, and that's it. You can't have objects and things laying around. Perhaps the tunnel walls in TSW2 can look a bit darker, but I wouldnt describe it as inaccurate
     
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  49. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree, they're different, but in general Bakerloo Line tunnels look a bit too "flat" and clean in my opinion, compared to the cab ride videos on YouTube. They should have more wires, pipes, dirt here and there. But they're just details, I know :D
     
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  50. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Member

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    Why has this digressed into a London based subway thread, the OP was asking about NYC :)
     
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