Would You Like To Buy Route Extensions

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by kosti.nuuja, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    I don't know is this section correct for this thread, but anyway, I will create this poll, because route extensions are DLC for DLC, what DTG wants to avoid. I'm asking you, would you like to buy route extensions?
     
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  2. F-Block

    F-Block Active Member

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    I'm already annoyed that loco DLCs requires a base DLC even though there's little to no reason for it unlike in TSW 1/2020. Now there's the scenario planner and extensive layering. Maybe the interactive tutorial is a argument, but the video guides provide the same if not even better information.
    I'd rarely go out of my way for buying a lot of dependencies.
    I only bought the 182 becaue I owned Rapid Transit, I now drive with it most of the time I do freight runs and never use it on RT. It kinda sparked intressted in me for freight tbh. If I'd have HRR I would probably buy the 101 and do a lot of Livery Designer stuff with it but it's not happening just because you NEED HRR.
    Now if there was an extension to HMA all the way to Holzkirchen yeah sure - I'd buy more Munich, but layers on Console already cause problems so you'd actually maybe get to Rosenheimer Platz - only 5 new stations. So you can't add anything actually interessting worth spending 18 Bucks on (Diesel Legends pricing). If you'd put it in it's own route it would be like a loco DLC again: stupid dependency. So I don't even see a way for extensions to be exiting.
     
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  3. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    In many cases, it would probably help for the extension to be able to stand on its own. Have a common point with the original route, but be a route of its own. Then you would offer a POSSIBILITY of merging them into one. Also, it might be interesting to explore the idea of instead of making one long route creating a network of routes connecting at one point. For E.g. New York Penn could connect LIRR and some new NEC route in the future. There wouldn't be much interaction between the connected services, they wouldn't be longer, but the shared section would become nicely busy and Penn station would be filled with traffic. If optimisation is done on HMA, München HBF could be a hub for many routes creating a station easily reaching 1000 services in the timetable.
     
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  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna vote "no". There might be a few, very specific routes, which I really like, I might be interested in an extension. But only for those specific routes.

    At this point, that'd probably be some of the high speed routes, which can be a tad short when zipping through the landscape at... well... high speed.

    And it may even be that I'd wait for a discount, as an extension would offer me a similar experience to a route I already have, albeit slightly longer.

    I don't think I'll be spending enough money on route extensions to make it very interesting for DTG to invest resources in. That's why I vote "no".
     
  5. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    As long as they are IRL-based and not fictional, definitely. If I buy a route DLC that means I enjoy the route - it's only fair to assume that someone like me would also enjoy having further experiences on the same route.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I vote yes. I really don't get dtg's dlc for dlc argument because they make loco dlc's which is dlc for dlc since you need a certain route to use the train. That's hypocrisy. It would be cool if it was a standalone route and then if you own the route that you bought the extension for, it can be merged to make a standalone route. I don't think they'll come for a while though
     
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  7. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I feel a bit short changed when I have to hand my train over to another driver, who then takes it where the extended route would be. I’d like to go from start to finish on every route in the game. Hopefully one day this will happen (the game is called Train Sim World after all). The only problem is, there are just too many railway miles in the world.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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  8. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    The answer is easy. And it is YES.
    I don't think it is a price problem, if you really like that route or that train you can buy it at the same price of the normal route too.
    However more km on the route, means new stops or freight yards, new or a continue for a service, new feature, more traffic and maybe more trains that can be added with layer or new dlc.
    This is not a blockbuster but a game for people that really like the trains world, so if the Dlc, loco or extention is ok, i think that everyone here will buy it at the price that DTG will chose.
    So i think that there are 2 ways. Longer or complete route and not just a short part of it (like HRR or RRO) or route lenght like now but with extention where possible. Nothing is impossible. For me is better the second option. There are a lot of route now in the game, and new one are coming, the time for extention instead of new route is arrived, expetially now with the highspeed train. An extention to Dortmund for HRR now after the br101 dlc for a longer journey? I think that everyone here with the br101 will but it.
     
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  9. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I would probably say no to route extensions in TSW for now, as I'd rather see new routes that don't overlap with existing routes that have a different look and feel, as well as possibly different (and new) rolling stock. There's still plenty new routes that could be made before we should need to see extensions to existing routes. Don't forget there's a finite amount of development time so would you prefer driving another 30 miles on an existing route with the same trains or driving something completely new with different trains and scenery?
     
  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Depending on where these extensions are, this is possible anyway. Extend from Reading towards Swindon and you'll see a lot of different possibilities including longer freight and IC runs. Add in a "branch lines pack" and you have a fair amount of shuttles adn short runs, expanding use of the 166.
    Add in extensions towards Waterloo and you have 3rd rail running down towards Guildford and so on. You end up with a network rather than "A-B runs"
     
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  11. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I would say the line from Reading to Waterloo is more of a standalone route than an extension to GWE, as like you say it's 3rd rail, uses completely different trains, and has a more stop-start metro feel to it with no through express trains. Services also don't run between the GWML and this line, and depart at separate dedicated platforms at Reading. So I would really categorise that as a different route altogether.
     
  12. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    It's probably more about how much value would be added. If you simply made Rapid Transit longer and still run Talents and 182s, it's pointless. In my signature, there's a link to my suggestion about the MSB extension to Würzburg. That for example would add a part of the most well known Schnellfahrstrecke in Germany, the scenery is a lot different to that of the MSB itself, it would enable both IC and ICE services on MSB, throw in new services and add new functionality - a difference between day and night running (during the night many freight trains go on the otherwise passenger-only high-speed section).

    We are talking about an extension to an existing route, but the DLC would probably hold a lot of value and significantly increase that of MSB. So it definitely is a case by case. Some routes are not worth extending, some definitely are. The services can change along the route a lot. Imagine having NEC between NYC and Trenton, Amtrak Acelas and NE Regionals + NJT. You would then make an extension to Philadelphia, Amtrak services would get longer and a brand new operator - SEPTA - would get introduced. Same route, different story. Both could also be standalone DLCs with the possibility of joining them if you own both and have Amtrak services continue.
     
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  13. samuelbrookes1

    samuelbrookes1 Active Member

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    I agree that it's annoying that there is a base DLC for loco DLCs. Also, I own HRR, and when I bought SKA, I expected to see the BR 422 layered onto it, but I had to buy Rhein Ruhr Osten, to use the train that I already owned on one of my routes.
     
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  14. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Exactly, depending from the route.
    I'm a fan of german route and i can say that now in the game the german dlc needs just extentions and loco dlc. Another dlc copy and paste like hamburg - lubeck no thanks, and the problem it's easy, for new experience we need longer route like munich-numberg but too long for the game now. And the same thing happens to other country routes too. I really want a modern uk route and not again another historical with diesel or the same EMUs that runs A to B. I bought SEHS and everyone here can say that it is not perfect, but funny to drive and this one can be extended too. Honestly i think a good way can be. 2 NEW route per year (And i say new, maybe other countries too) and more extentions qnd loco dlcs tha ADD and not just make a subsitution for the current service.
     
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  15. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I know what you are saying, I'm quite happy for a route extension/upgrade DLC provided it introduces new gameplay (such as new services and new trains), not just extra miles on an existing drive, to justify the cost and development time.
     
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  16. anas.hera

    anas.hera Active Member

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    I’d say yes to route extensions, mainly for HRR, MSB and GWE only if there’ll be new services and locos along with them - unless the extension is <£10.
     
  17. geo52

    geo52 New Member

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    I will vote yes but only for North America Freight ( Canada,U.S.A, Mexico) Routes
     
  18. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely yes and if they do extend Long Island Railroad Port Washington Branch can go all the way to Port Washington via Flushing Main Street & Mets Willets Point LaGuardia Airport Stations and Ronkonkoma Branch to Ronkonkoma from Hicksville because tracks on that line electrified was Electrified on December 28th 1987.
     
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  19. truckerdave18

    truckerdave18 Member

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    Yeah, surely I would buy a route extension. Especially for the High Speed lines like the french LGV or the High Speed 1 coming from the channel tunnel. It kinda dampens the fun if a High speed line only covers a small area. Compare it with going on vacation. If I do, I don't visit my neighborhood. I visit places far away. And this is the magic and fun of High Speed trains: You board the train somewhere and after a short period of time you are in a completely different area of the country. This is what makes High Speed routes so exciting for me.

    I would absolutely love to travel with 300 km/h on the 180 km long High Speed route from Cologne to Frankfurt in the Simulator. It got quite often suggested here in the forum that this would be a perfect merge or extension to Cologne-Aachen, whereby I don't think that this counts as an extension but more like a standalone DLC. But still, these are my dreams ;)
     
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  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think it would be better to have multiple standalone routes, which could be merged (I've suggested a continuation of service across multiple routes mechanic, that allows players to quickly switch to the same service on the next route, this isn't a physical merger) for players that own two or more connecting routes.

    This would circumvent the DLC on DLC problem, as each route represents a standalone DLC, with it's own full timetable, rolling stock and a full route length.
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    True, there are a few ECS from Reading depot but maybe not enough to make it a core extension.
     
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  22. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely yes! As much as I enjoy the routes, I would love to see them getting extended, especially HRR, RRO, LGV, and SEHS to name a few. Also, I recently brought SEHS last week and I personally loved it. However, I would buy the Chatham Main Line to London Victoria extension to use the Class 375s and Class 465s for a bit longer. I didn’t buy LGV because it only mades two stops in the middle of the route at Aix-en-Provence and Avignon stations. An extension to Lyon would be great and then I would definitely buy the route.
     
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  23. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The better extension for this would be the "Thanet loop" via Margate and Ramsgate to Ashford
    375s run along the entire length of the route, there are depots at Ashford (395) and Ramsgate (375) and if they then decided to do a HS1 extension to Ashford you'd have the complete SEHS system bar the short run into Maidstone down the Medway Valley line.
    Much as I'm sure people would want all the London termini, that is a much harder ask than a run through the countryside
     
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  24. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I voted no. Mainly due to my own attention span. 30 minutes to an hour is fine for me on existing routes. I play them until I’m bored and rarely go back to them. If an extension came out Would I go back to the route again, probably not.

    Doesn‘t mean they shouldn’t do them, just that I‘m very unlikely to buy them if they did.
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    My response to this would be, what if it wasn't just an extension to existing services, but included other service patterns on the same (extended) route. For instance is they did extend SEHS out to Ashford via the loop you would have services coming from Ashford terminating at Ramsgate, depot runs to Ashford from Faversham or to and from Ramsgate etc

    Agreed if you don't like long runs then simply extending existing runs to be 2 hours long would be tedious (I'm not a fan of all green runs myself)
     
  26. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    It would make me think twice. If extensions came out with significant variety I‘d try one, but if I‘m honest, probably not for me.

    Up to now, I‘ve bought all the DLC to get an idea what I like. That’s got to stop at some point! I‘ve found my pattern is generally play shorter routes a lot, then rarely go back. I‘ve found that Clinchfield, while It’s clearly a good route, just bores me. Loco DLC for older routes is not providing me with much value either. I really looked forward to the DB BR 101. It‘s great, but I‘m not really getting much out of it because I‘m already bored with the route.

    Appreciate that others like different things though.
     
  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I guess that's the issue with trains, they tend to run certain service patterns and once you've run that pattern in one train, subbing in another train probably doesn't add a lot to it. Let's face it you set off, get up to speed, slow down for limits, then back up again and then you stop...
     
  28. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I'm unsure, but I think there's a few things that have to be considered first.

    First, if we take Rhein Ruhr Nord as the most obvious example as it's basically half of the original TS20xx route, Hagen-Siegen.
    They're first going to have to update everything about Rhein Ruhr Nord to make it up to current standards.
    Not that that's some impossible task, RRN is in my opinion already one of the better looking routes in the game, and replacing those stepping stones to get on platforms is probably pretty easy, but still.
    You would want the route to be consistent, and seeing a clear distinction in quality from Finnentrop to Siegen would kind of break some immersion.
    Of course also an effort should be made that the new addition should be set in the exact same time as the original route part, so for RRN, around 2016-ish, but that shouldn't be a problem I think.

    Secondly, and I think most important, how are you going to make it fair pricewise?
    TSW2 routes are getting longer and longer, and the price of a route is a standard €29,99, which I think is fair.
    For routes I'm less interested in but still want, they have plenty sales, so I'll just wait till it's 50% off, which it's bound to be at some point.
    But although we haven't reached this point yet, in the future when we have, while routes are getting longer, you're essentially selling a route for 2x€29,99 for a same length new route that's €29,99. Unless they go above and beyond to make every little branch count in the expansion of course, and that it's absolutely packed with things to do and the original part of the route is updates to current standards.

    Also, lastly, on the same point with pricing.
    Just a route extension for full route price would really suck if there's no new trains included in it, so unless they also come with new trains and layers on the whole route for the extension, I don't think you could justify a whole new route price for it.

    But for some route, like Rhein Ruhr Nord, if I can be guaranteed all the above mentioned things, than yes, I would definitely buy.

    But to recap.
    TL:DR
    -Old part of route needs to be brought up to date.
    -Should also include new rolling stock and layers of rolling stock that came out after the original route.
    -Should be absolutely perfectly fleshed out to make up for essentially double pricing, and to make the route with extension still viable even when newer routes are becoming longer and better.
     
  29. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Active Member

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    I'm really looking forward to expanding the routes. I would be happy if the route Cologne-Dusseldorf-Duisburg-Bochum-Dortmund and Cologne-Dusseldorf-Wuppertal-Hagen-Siegen are assembled.
     
  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair the DB BR 422 doesn't even run on ska in real life. The DB S-Bahn Koln DB BR 423 runs on that route in real life. DTG had yet to make a DB S-Bahn Koln DB BR 423 for some odd reason so they just added the 422 which isn't realistic but hey dtg seems ok with breaking realism
     
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That would be a cool idea so we can take the 395 to Margate and Ramsgate making 395 services feel complete
     
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Both ways on the classic lines, unless they did HS1 from Ebbsfleet to Ashford as well when it would be the whole HS route

    Would also mean being able to run 375s from Rochester round to Sandwich
     
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  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes. Taking the 375 to Sandwich to go to Subway for a Sandwich
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
  34. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Doing all those lines might be too long for TSW, maybe a Ramsgate extension to the Chatham Main line in TS2021 might be more suitable.

    Anyway take it from me, the HS1 line from Ebbsfleet to Ashford is quite boring anyway, just a 20 minute drive non-stop mostly next to a motorway, the only real interesting part being the bridge across the Medway. I live near this line and often travel on it, and it isn't really special. A standalone route like the South Eastern Main Line (London Charing Cross to Tonbridge) would be more interesting. Short but very busy with lots of service patterns and landmarks.
     
  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Ramsgate - Faversham : 27¼ miles
    Ramsgate - Ashford via Canterbury West : 29¾ miles
    Ashford - Ebbsfleet : 32¾ miles

    And I live 100 yards from Gillingham station so also know the area very well

    I'd prefer the North Kent lines (all three) from Dartford rather than the yawn to nowhere (which Tonbridge basicaly is)
     
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  36. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    On top of a 50 mile route would be too much. Maybe Faversham to Ramsgate but not Ebbsfleet - Ashford - Ramsgate.

    Like I said TS2021 seems to handle longer routes better and does do extensions, so a Ramsgate extension to the Chatham Main line is more logical.

    North Kent Line/Dartford lines would be good also. Tonbridge is just a logical stop-start point that's within TSW expectations. Arguably no more interesting than the drive to Faversham, just with more traffic.
     
  37. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    TSW can handle longer routes. It's just that dtg don't have the time to make a 100+mile long route for example. An additional 27 miles from Faversham to Ramsgate would be no problem. It would make the current route that we have 78 miles
     
  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So in three extensions, maybe at £15 each you could have all three?
    Then again I don't have an issue with paying that much for routes, some do
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This has been discussed before and just about every route done for the game apart from IOW, which is self contained, would benefit from an extension. The prime candidate being GWE which really comes up short when it only takes 23 minutes in a non stop HST from Paddington to Reading. It should at least go to Oxford thus on a par with the Rail Simulator/Railworks original and the outer end of the Thames Valley commuter service.

    However the practical considerations, on which DTG remain quiet, are several. We don't know whether their UE4 derived editor can actually just load an existing route as you would in Trainz, MSTS or TS, throw another 30 miles worth of DEM and markers/maps in and start building. It may be once a route is baked, it's hard coded and the whole thing would have to be built from scratch. Then there's the marketing... If you sell it as an add on then anyone who doesn't have the original, unlikely as that is, will be forking out £50 to get the complete route. If you sell it as a complete route for £25, existing users may feel short changed vs. the new customers who, in their view, will be getting the existing section free.
     
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem with the price either
     
  41. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    That's what I suspected. Faversham to Ramsgate is within sense but anything beyond is probably too far.
    Depends whether they will work independently or not, otherwise to drive from Ashford to Ramsgate you'll need potentially £55 in base routes/extensions for it to work (when alternatively we could get the bog standard £25 route with a new train to drive within a potentially similar development time).
     
  42. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I would buy lots of route extensions- marsh link line, koln to Frankfurt, London to Brighton and the rest of the Chatham mainline are only to name a few!
     
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    London to Brighton would be a standalone route.
    Chatham Main may well be an overlap, but I would happily see it as a "network of routes" rather than standalone as it gives much more flexibility for services
     
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  44. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Well there been doing that for ages just look at the rail tours. That is dlc for dlc. And currently you are unable to just buy a loco without its intended route. (Unless this changes in the future)
     
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  45. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    I would depending on the route and consider its value if it can enhance my gameplay experience.
     
  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It is not about how far it is. It is about how long it would take to make it. In theroy dtg could've made sehs go to ramsgate or ashford, but they probably didn´t have time to do that
     
  47. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    There's plenty of extensions for ts classic so i don't get the "we don't want dlc for dlc" The only hurdle would be timetables which has decent solutions suggested in another thread (1 alternate timetable for both routes combined and 2 timetables for the routes seperately if you don't own both)
     
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  48. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    Thats because they currently had the BR 422 avaiable for a S-Bahn Train before the BR 423 came + DTG would need to change the interior of the BR 423 because the S-Bahn Köln uses the undermodernized version
     
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  49. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think route extensions would be a great way to create more of a 'network' than a single route, which would vastly improve the replayability of each route. Running the same section of track over and over again can become quite stale after a while. I think that I would play the game much more often if there was more diversity in the destinations of each individual route. Similarly, I do find myself disappointed when routes are released for TSW2 which are much shorter than their TS2020 equivalent, especially when they cost roughly the same when new. I imagine the development time/cost will be more in TSW2, but I just can't shake that feeling that I'm getting less for the same price.

    Anyway, a big yes from me for route extensions. I do hope hope they form part of DTG's long term plans for the game/series over the coming years.
     
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  50. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I was referring to 'far' in the context of both development time and physical distance, me being vague.
    Although TSW routes are all seemingly shorter than their TS counterparts so I don't know whether that's a limitation of the sim or due to the allocated development time for each route. Hopefully routes will increase in length now they have some form of autogen which might speed things up.
     
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