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Xbox Series S,x

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by WVUadam, Feb 27, 2021.

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  1. Yes

    30 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. WVUadam

    WVUadam Active Member

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    I hope in the future there be a Dev stream discussing the Xbox Series X, S and PS5 version.

    Already developers such as 4AGames have spoken about the limitations of the xbox series S. So I would hope there's honestly from DTG when planning to release a updated version. This is so that if people own a series s and play the game , they then know what can and can't be achieved unless serious comprises are taken.

    Ambitions for next gen would like to see
    - All routes upgraded and match PC layers
    - Multiplayer
     
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  2. hypospray

    hypospray Member

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    Why everyone is so obsessed with multiplayer in a train simulator? I dont get it. That's one of the last things I would like to see the devs spend any time on while so many other things need their attentions.

    Aside of the multiplayer part I agree on a next gen version.
     
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  3. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Multi player is asked for because it adds a level of human error which you cannot get with AI.

    Driver missing AWS alarms or having train failures would mean signaller/dispatcher would have to reroute you etc.

    In my opinion, it's one of my most wanted features.
     
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  4. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    TSW 2 is already running very well on Series S (1080p) and Series X (4K). They have stutters here and there but they already represent a night and day difference compared to the Xbox One consoles. I think if developers can find the time to optimize the game specifically for next-gen systems, these are the areas they could focus on:

    - Iron out the remaining performance dips (framerate drops and stutters), e.g. even more stable 60 fps
    - Enable all layers on all routes, specifically on München-Augsburg (this will probably be done anyway)
    - Possible increase in LOD distance
    - Possible increase in shadow draw distance
    - Possibly better resolution textures, if applicable
    - More passengers on the trains and at stations

    I would have to stress that any graphical upgrade should be done while keeping the smooth 60 fps performance, and I hope that if the developers ever start making a next-gen version they will keep framerate a priority. No graphical effect is worth having an overall worse performance. But with the new generation development tools and APIs it is theoretically possible to more efficiently utilize both the CPU/GPU and the SSD (hardware compression, etc), and even the memory of Xbox consoles (sampler feedback). Of course I don't expect an independent third-party developer to immediately exploit every nook and cranny these hardware have, but I do hope it will be possible to increase draw distance and overall graphical detail and quality without sacrificing performance.

    As for the question, no I wouldn't pay for the same game twice. I think any "next-gen" upgrade should be done via Smart Delivery, e.g. an automatic update. We've already purchased the base game and continue to purchase DLC, so as long as it's kept the same product I would expect any update to be free, just like 98% of the companies thankfully do. Of course, it's a different situation if these upgrades are included only in a next product release (TSW 3 or whatever). But I hope TSW will be kept as a cohesive, unified platform going forward, next-gen upgrade or not.
     
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  5. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Multiplayer would add a whole new dynamic to the game. If there were big open servers such as 30 players in a lobby, you’ve got the opportunity to meet/talk to fellow rail enthusiasts- for the first time, we will actually have a proper train simulator community where we can interact with each other as oppose to coming to the forums for a moan. And as Bryer has said, your or other players’ actions will impact on signalling and time keeping. While to a lot of you train driving is a lonely and independent job (which is true to an extent) you’ll start to appreciate being a train driver and rail operations is so much more complex than that- you rely on other drivers/trains, guards, dispatchers, signaller, etc... There’s a big difference between driving trains as you do in a simulator and being a train driver. It would also be nice to see in the future a guard and signaller mode.

    If people don’t want multiplayer that’s fine and you can choose not to play it but I think it’s a selfish attitude to have, “I don’t care for multiplayer therefore they shouldn’t bother putting it into the game.” Asking for multiplayer really isn’t a far-feteched or crazy idea to have. There are far weirder things people ask for such as working toilets. I’ve just had a look at Farming Sim and there are currently 1002 players hosting. Games like Farming Sim wouldn’t be what it is without multiplayer. The same argument could easily well apply, “who wants to play multiplayer on farming sim.”

    What are these many things that need attention?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Except - and it's a big except- multiplayer would be a huge project for a lot of people out of a tiny studio without a lot of personnel- man-hours that many of us would much rather see assigned to steam, or optimization, or overhauled NPC/passengers, or fixing the abysmal shadow draw distance etc etc etc.

    So, in my case (I hate multiplayer), it's not just a case of "if I don't like it I won't play it," but multiplayer being a resource-thief delaying or preventing upgrades I care about.
     
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  7. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    The team of Farming Simulator is much smaller than the DTG team.

    Also you can tell you play on PC. If the bugs above are that crippling your enjoyment, go play TSC as you have that option on PC.

    Multiplayer is a core component on consoles for any game, it's a platform built for multiplayer, which is why I have made the comments I've made here. You're views are valid and yes they need addressing, but multiplayer also needs to be developed, otherwise the player base will drift away to play other things, as new routes won't just be enough of a new element.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  8. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    personally i would like the whole game be optimized to an extent that it's easily playable and we have allot more in the game like steam trains more routes more complex dispatcher ect and an ideal system to play on before we even think about getting to have multiplayer. personally i'm not interested in multiplayer as especially with a train sim i see little use with how i play but i know other people interests are in it but it's wanting multiplayer to me is comparable to the wanting of a certain route we can keep asking for it but it may never happen
     
  9. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Well considering multiplayer was a coming soon feature of the Founders Edition when that first released. It disappeared from discussions when TSW 2020 made an appearance, it was clearly given a fair bit of thought at the time.

    Furthermore, adding a MP element would give you the more complex signaller/dispatcher mode you are after. As a human could always signal you better than AI ever could, hence why signallers exists in the railway today and computers haven't been given full control.

    Curious are you a console or PC player Knightfire1964?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  10. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    console player myself for some time had the game since founders edition was released on xbox on day one with regards to i can tell the stream your talking about having multiplayer i think matt was being very ambitious with what he was saying and could be mirrored to what happened with no man sky's pre-release of saying stuff that is coming on the game but never did and passion for something overtook what was capable in reality. also, i have what i play on etc in my bio
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  11. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    OK, you're playing on the original Xbox and you're requesting for a more stable and playable product than we've currently got .

    Yes it needs to be optimised, however DTG doesn't have to support the OG Xbox anymore. Especially with the changes to Microsoft's policy on how things can run across the family of consoles, so they have to decide to optimise the engine for the last generation, or move forward and start working towards the new standards for XSX, XSS and PS5.

    You can't support the rather weak OG Xbox forever and I genuinely think most developers started focusing more on making the Xbox One S the core system about 18 months ago.

    The product has been stable on the One S, One X and Series consoles for quite some time due to the extra grunt in the GPU and data transfer speeds.

    I personally think the OG Xbox and OG PS4's are the current bottleneck with the game and are causing the issues being encountered as DTG have to support them, and make sure evetything runs on the lowest specs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  12. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    i was never meaning for a more optimized game for og xbox i was meaning in a whole for all platforms
     
  13. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    also hardware on xbox one s is the same as the og xbox only difference is size
     
  14. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Current gen support may not be necessary from a technical point of view - basically I agree with you on that- but with the limited availability of the next gen consoles it is especially for a niche product developer like DTG vital at this point. There is just no market for next gen at the moment and that state will not alter in the next months. In best case scenario this might be an option for the 2022 summer update, whether it's called TSW3 or whatever then, when next gen hardware isn't sold out all the time, but even this would be a very high risk as a significant number of players don't have any plans for an upgrade in the upcoming years.
    Again, I agree with you that you can't support current gen forever but I expect it will be the end of 2022 to mid-ish 2023 when the number of next gen players will exceed the number of current gen players. Until that it doesn't make sense to drop them because too many sales would be lost.
     
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  15. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    i agree with jonnE that i feel the transfer to next gen is going to be even longer than it was with the current gen to next gen
     
  16. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect. There was an uplift in memory speed and GPU power in the Xbox One S over the OG Xbox.

    Xbox Specs sheet
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  17. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Would it really cause a lack of sales, if you started introducing a sliding scale of improvements for the Xbox family. You can enable console specific features at a code based level.

    Allowing the player to decide what they enable and disable etc or just not offering certain toggles on certain consoles. There's a lot that could be done to improve the experience on console by letting the player decide the effects, draw distance etc.
     
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  18. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    ok like the most minuscule upgrade though
     
  19. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    No not really. Made a hell of difference. The extra 14GB/s on ESRAM was game changing for Xbox, enabling certain things in 4K etc.

    Also the uplift from 1.3 TFLOPS 1.4 TFLOPS was also a large increase in graphical processing.
     
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  20. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I was against MP, but as time went on the idea started to grow on me, mainly because it can cause (almost) "true" randomisation to the timetable, due to human error.

    Although I believe a very basic version of multiplayer would be enough as a first step, simply a timetable mode where a person plays one of the services, without getting into more complicated systems like radio communication (which many player would not be able to correctly use anyway - me included, a human dispatcher, etc...), although it would be nice to simulate those if/when more realistic communities will start to form (like VATSIM for flight simming).

    It would be nice as a long term project, but right now there are more pressing issues to be resolved, in my opinion.

    I also believe an optimization for XSX and XSS would be very welcome, even if they just add the HMA layers and full GWE timetable, graphical improvement only if the game will maintain ~55/60fps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  21. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    No, this model would indeed be a nice workaround everybody could live with.
    Sale numbers would only be affected when the current gen platforms wouldn't be supported at all anymore (which clearly would not be the case then - maybe I misunderstood your first post a little bit here).

    Maybe this is even in consideration for the future but it would require a lot of work and more than just one of the mysterious missing UI artists ;)
    At the current state next gen profit from memory optimizations as well - let's see what resources are free when that is done.

    Besides I really hope they can show what our good old machines are capable of if they are squeezed out a bit... ;)
    I remember how GTA 5 pushed the X360 to the absolute limit back then - of course this is a slightly exaggerated comparison but it was great nevertheless :D
     
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I suspect what will happen will be like what happens with every other multiplayer game in the universe- not human error, but human jerkishness. All it takes is one clown to park his train in a bottleneck and laugh while the traffic pattern goes to hell. MP in general is just a playground for griefers, gankers and maladjusted adolescents whose greatest joy is f*cking up other people's game.

    Bryer, I suspect that "Multiplayer is the way of the future" is dying back; it's no longer the Industry Mantra it was ca. 2015. I note with interest that EA- the Bigfoot of monetized multiplayer- allowed Bioware to strip all MP from its forthcoming Dragon Age title*. MP has worked well for some franchises- notably Grand Theft Auto, probably because that game attracts psychopaths in the first place.


    _______________________________
    *Highly ironic, because EA had killed the original DA4 project precisely because it didn't include MP.
     
  23. drdavewatford

    drdavewatford New Member

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    The OG XBOX was released back in 2001 and was the first XBOX console. TSW was never released on this console. When you refer to "og xbox" do you mean XBOX One? If so then there are numerous differences between XBOX One and XBOX One S - connectivity, a small tweak to performance, support for HDR, 4K upscaling etc. etc.
     
  24. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Yes I was referring to the OG Xbox One..... Thanks for pointing it out.
     
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  25. drdavewatford

    drdavewatford New Member

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    No problem.

    To be fair, Microsoft haven't exactly helped with their naming conventions!
     
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  26. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    If anyone on this forum thought I was talking about the original Xbox, more fool them.
     
  27. david-bright184169

    david-bright184169 Active Member

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    I NEVER participate in multiplayer and never will,
    as I like to be in control of my own destiny
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    At least Sony's makes sense.
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Would I pay for a next gen version for what would effectively be the same game, no. Do I think multiplayer would be cool, yes but I do think dtg need to improve the game before adding multiplayer
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, I wound up buying Xbox One updates of certain 360 games, like GTA V.
     
  31. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Same for me on PS4 with GTA. However, I probably won't be buying the extended and enhanced version as that would mean I've paid for the same game 3 times.
     

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