Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

Lesson learned: If we want route improvements all we need is a 34 page forum post on each and it will get done (eventually)

 

Squeaky wheel always gets the grease!l

 

Nice to see NY-Trenton timetable on the roadmap, I really hope they include static freight and LIRR layers down the road too.

What really caught my eye on the roadmap though was this little bit

Really hope they will actually follow through with this and releases going forward have all the standardized features that are supposed to be there.

Would love to see the NS Coal District route from TS1 make a return in TSW, it also includes street running

 

I think I’m going to be ecstatic with the results. A full 2019 electric timetable is going to bring this route to life.

I had faith that dtg would address this. I’m happy that faith was rewarded. I’m happier that you’re on the case.

 

Now that I know Joe is working the NYT timetable I know we are going to get a great NYT timetable . Harlem line in my opinion curretly has the best US timetable which he put together. Today is a good day and it looks like our feedback and frustration paid off. Great job to all that gave feedbacks and spoke up.

 

Thank you Joe, your work is highly appreciated.

Just as a consideration for the timetable, if a LIRR layer isn’t possible (due to memory usage concerns and/or dispatcher issues due to all the trains, etc) maybe some static LIRR trains parked at New York Penn could be done instead?

Of course I’d prefer a working LIRR layer, but static trains would be much better than nothing on that front.


Thanks again

 

I'm so shocked, I genuinely didn't think this would happen, but I love being proven wrong. Thank you to everyone here who not only started the threads but also kept them going for months, this wouldn't have happened without you. Today is a day to celebrate.

I know many are sad about no LIRR, but this is going to make the route come alive, so I personally am ok with sacrificing LIRR to have a full timetable that changes the feeling of the entire route over services that only really impact NYP.

 

I’d still love to see at the very least some freight sitting along the line, it really is a game changer on Boston. But I can’t complain about the fact that we’re finally going to get a good NJT timetable! They really did it, they didn’t abandon us?

Now then, can you please fix the trains clipping through poles and platforms at NY Penn, DTG?

 

Woohoo! Great news. Thanks to DTG for listening to the feedback and working on making the issue right. The route itself is very good and it was a shame that it was let down by a timetable which (frankly) was unfinished. It would be nice if each DLC was perfect on release, but knowing you recognize issues and will work to fix flaws even after release makes me a lot more likely to keep buying DLC (not only did I buy NYT on release but I actually bought it twice, on XSX and PS5).

Also, even thought he route does have flaws outside of the NJT timetable (LIRR, clipping, etc) I am happy that out of the gate you focused on the most glaring one which is the lack of traffic on the main core route (between Penn and Trenton).

 

So looking at possible numbers that we can see and I'm excited.

So looking at the possible numbers of total services one way to Penn station, looking at the current timetable with the above train numbers I have come up with the following:
Montclair line- 21 (AI only) Secaucus junction
morris&essex line-35 (AI only) Secaucus junction

north jersey coat line-35 (Rahway)
nec-67 (Trenton, Jersey city)
total 158 to penn station. I didn't include any AI to hoboken

 

so I guess when all is said and done we are likely doubling the total amount of services for the route?

 

This route has now gone from not even in a sale to a definite purchase, I might even get it over the weekend in readiness.

 

Obviously a great outcome. Perhaps that doesn't need to be explicitly stated, but I do feel that it is important to be positive, as well as critical, where appropriate. It appears that this whole experience might even start to move the game itself in a better direction. I look forward to buying the improved NYT. Thanks DTG.

 

Those who missed the discussion about the new timetable improvements from the livestream, start from 1:05:00.

 

I thought they were saving room for future DLCs: Arrow III, NJCL with ALP-45DP, some freight loco like 3GS-21B, etc. I don't like this simplification and substitution. Yes, congratulations, you found a comment from someone who is unhappy with this solution.

 

This is great news - NY-Trenton was a route that interested me upon first hearing but, like with MML, the initial timetable was a major let down so I didn't think it was worth it. However, with a revamped, busy timetable I might finally get NY-Trenton - along with the Acela as I'm a fan of Boston too.

Overall, I'm happy the timetable for NY-Trenton (and MML) are to be revamped, though I still think it's highly frustrating that it took a lot of community feedback to push for such busy timetables - which should be a standard feature, especially when DTG have routes like London Commuter or Dresden etc.

 

Space is left for the arrow 3 since those services were not included. Same with any diesel services. Njt doesn't have a lot of locomotives to work with. It's around 30 alp46s and 46as. It's either you have an empty timetable which people got extremely angry about or you have a busier timetable which is what the route was advertised as being the busiest part of the nec. Dtg can't please everyone unfortunately. Currently there is no option to choose what layers are available, but when you got a majority of players complaining about a lackluster timetable, dtg can't just sweep it under a rug.

 

I’d say closer to triple

 

Because there is no trains to fill this timetable. This is the fault of DTG, not the timetable itself.
I'd rather wait for the expansions to come out. Arrow III and Comet railcars will give us many realistic services. ALP-46 with double-deck barn not the best replacement for them. It's unrealistic.

 

Here are the numbers from Penn station
Montclair line-22(AI only) Secaucus Junction
Morris&Essex-41(AI only) Secaucus Junction
North jersey coast line-34(Rahway)
NEC-64 Trenton, Jersey city
Total 161 from Penn station
Total 319 NJT services. These don’t include the deadheads or yard moves. A rough estimate but if Joe gets to add some freight static, freight AI, and the LIRR, this would make this route epic. I can’t wait and it gives hope to hopefully get a future New Haven line with the M8

 

Always thought it was a very good representation of the route ,only services were poor,with the updates will make it complete as is possible with all current rolling stock,well done DTG!

 

That may change my opinion of this route.
For me TSW was always about busy timetables, railfaning at full of trains stations or driving around with trains going evrywhere.
Will wait for the result.

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ts19-réseau-renaissance.14205/
Forget those.

 

Huge thumbs up to DTG for making this happen. I'm not as train/route knowledgeable as most here, so I don't know any other way to explain this except that NYT is currently missing its soul. Compared to other great TSW routes, it just feels stiff and lifeless. I'd be overjoyed to see anything that would make me want to play it again.

 

Joethefish I have a question about services from the Morris &Essex line and Montclair-Boonton line. Are the services that stop at secaucus junction going to now be player playable services? or Just continue to be AI only? I know currently those limited services that we do have are not. This would be great since they would be short like the ones on London commuter like the London bridge services.

 

Very excited for NJT timetable updates.

I won't get my hopes up because I don't know what the performance hit would be like, but I really hope we're able to get some static and moving AI freight in there as well, like there is for Harlem. I'd love to one day have another US route with passenger and freight (like Peninsula Corridor)

 

As someone who regularly commutes on the route to work, takes photos of it and whatnot, I think I am more equipped to speak about it than most here.

I believe Seacaucus Junction lower level is if not available to travel down to, at least visible in the game and kudos to the developers for that, but the problem is that you need the proper equipment there even if it's static. They are completely different routes than the upper level.

I saw Princeton Junction mentioned and you MUST put that in. It's only 2 miles long, a unique branch line that you could several things with and runs a Dinky. You could have 1 or 2 car trains and the only equipment used is Arrows, which you could then layer into Secaucus Junction lower level.

When you get out of the tunnel to go to Seacaucus Junction, there are tracks visible that run under the NJT service. Those are CSX tracks and again, at the very least, static trains would be nice.

If the line is to be extended perhaps DTG could try to acquire the SEPTA license. Not only would you be able to run service there as SEPTA starts at Trenton, but you could run Amtrak to 30th Street station, solving a problem mentioned in the screenshot above.

This is a minor detail, but at least twice I have ridden Arrows on this route so maybe throwing them on the line would be a good idea.

There is more but I don't want to overload Joethefish with too much to do as I am sure he is busy with other aspects of the game.

 

While it is only 2 miles doesn't actually mean it's easy at all. Scenery is probably not going to take a while but the actual signaling and timetable would be complicated.

 

I understand, but that hasn't stopped them from rushing to produce a sub-standard route as 34 pages in this thread show.

While it's a required part of the route, it would also go a long way (as a goodwill gesture of sorts) to building back the trust they clearly lost with some of the recent issues.

 

There's no reason why they couldn't re-assign those services if they make any of those DLCs. That's what happened with the Baby Bullet on Pennisula Corridor.

 

Can you address my points please?

 

Joethefish, were you able to make use of more pathing options around Secaucus, using the outer platforms for station stops sometimes and the inner tracks for their full lengths between Portal and Allied interlockings for the trains that use the island platform? This, and making use of both westbound platform tracks at Trenton, would help mitigate some of the bottlenecks, I would imagine.

Regardless, THANK YOU for all of your efforts in bringing this more robust timetable to us!!!

 

Here's something I'm looking forward to / finding interesting, the amount of "hiccups" with new trains & AI.
In the current build, or at least when I filmed this, there's this funny (imo) hiccup at Trenton.

When you play Amtrak Northeast Regional 130, you spawn DIRECTLY behind Acela Express 2154.
In real life, this wouldn't happen because Acela 2154 doesn't stop at Trenton.

So between EVERY Acela (with the exception of a few in scenarios) stopping at Trenton and increased NJT services, will DTG look into utilizing "Track 5" at Trenton? The one SEPTA primarily uses nowadays? It's one of the only tracks that isn't used AFAIK in the game.
I just don't want there to be massive pileups / backed up trains at Ham & Fair Interlockings like the Harlem Line DLC had at Mott Haven.

Also, will this lead to more use of interlockings such as Midway, Lincoln, Edison, County (for non Jersey Ave trains), and Delco?

I rode on a number of Amtrak trains in real life heading eastbound that used County when Fair interlocking was busy.
Midway is typically used when 1 or 4 are OOS between Fair & Midway.

 

Something similar occurred with M3s on the LIRR, the M3s were interchangeable with M7s.
So, if Arrow 3s are eventually made for TSW 3, I imagine they would replace existing services, rather than have their own exclusive ones.
That said, I would like for them to at least have a scenario or two. But, we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it.
Not the Morrisville bridge to the Morrisville Yard though..*insert side eye (in jest)*

Sidenote (slightly unrelated), does anyone know which real life NJT NECL trains are assigned Arrow 3s?
Whenever I take NJT it feels like every other train is an Arrow 3, EXCEPT mine. One day I'll meet my match, one day.

 

Also, one other thing. Will DTG work on the following regarding Secaucus?:

1. Increased use of ALLIED, ERIE, LACK & PORTAL Interlockings. Mainly the use of Track A between ALLIED & ERIE, and LACK & PORTAL.
   
2. Having NJT revenue trains utilize ALL 4 tracks at Secaucus Upper. Currently all NJT revenue services serving Secaucus in the game only use A & B, when in reality they use 3 and 2 as well, ideally when there isn't a train directly behind them.

Here are few photos & videos of NJT trains utilizing the various tracks at Secaucus in real life:

1. https://www.railpictures.net/photo/813392/
2. https://www.railpictures.net/photo/814359/

Here's a track layout of Secaucus Upper & the interlockings surrounding it, it's on Page 64:

• https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...rak-Infrastructure-ALP-Appendix-B-FY21-26.pdf

Currently I believe only a handful of Jersey Ave deadhead runs use Track A Eastbound between ERIE & ALLIED.
The only diverging move takes place in the "Havoc on Hudson" scenario, where your train diverges from 2 to A to 3 from PORTAL to ALLIED.
I believe this was brought up earlier in the thread as well. It could improve On Time Performance for NJT trains that stop at Secaucus.

 

Thanks Joe for that explanation. It makes sense about the drive from Penn to Secaucus being mostly stuck on the Hudson tunnels. With that said I can narrow down the NJT playable passenger services which would be from the northeast corridor line, and north jersey coast line. Hope to see some freight AI going across the elevated track around hunter yard like we see in the scenario Cab race.that CSX freight train looks fantastic. Also the static freight around stiles yard and NJT trains around the NJ Hudson yard and meadows complex. I have a question,would the LIRR trains be isolated to the two northern tunnels(manhattan shaft line 3 and 4? They wouldn’t interfere with NJT or Amtrak trains? I’m so pumped about this route finally coming to life….

 

It’s more than a bit of a bottleneck. In real life it’s a biiiiiig bottleneck. If in your work you’re seeing stuck stack up there you’re doing something right

 

A train passing each other in aorta waits in the expectation in large quantities

 

Maybe I missed it, but all I see so far is the updated timetable announced, which is awesome, but what about the other bugs like signaling? I'm excited for the updates, but the timetable wasn't the only issue with this route.

 

He says he only handles timetable-related issues. In that case, he should take our points and forward them to whoever handles that stuff.

 

It's a broader question to DTG. I never was intending this was on Joe, and it isn't his responsibility to forward our issues to whomever handles these issues either, that's for the QA and Support team to document and resolve separately as issues are reported in the feedback thread and tickets.

I'm concerned that the larger timetable might evoke more signal problems, and I'm hoping DTG is looking into this. I'm doubtful though given no announcement

 

I suspect that the new services will bring more signals problems. Wanted to bring this forward to this thread to help spread this to hopefully find a long term fix.

 

Thanks Joe for that. I know we are using the 2019 timetable for the NJT but not sure if it will make it easy to use the current timetable for the LIRR since about 35% of the services now go to new Grand Central Madison. on the road map article it mentions no AI traffic at secaucus junction. Is that statement meant for the lower secaucus junction or both? Also it mentions AI electric trains to Hoboken terminal will be included. Do you have the train numbers for those that will be going to Hoboken as AI since I don't see any of the listed 31XX,32,35,37,38,39, and 6XXX trains going to Hoboken terminal

 

Joe can correct me if I’m wrong here, but my guess is that the Hoboken services would represent the 26XX series trains between Hoboken and Long Branch.

 

I completely agree with you. The shorter services for BML are realistic, thus having them means a busier, proper timetable as well. So, please continue adding such shorter services for all future route timetables you do - as this certainly provides more variation and long-term gameplay too from the timetable.

 

I don't file a ticket because it takes them forever to respond.

Considering DTG staff know tickets take a while, Joe forwarding it to the correct department is not a big deal.

Similar to the SPG Derail thread. Matt directly asked me what was wrong, I told him and am still waiting for a reply.

He asked me months ago.

 

It is really good to see the NY-Trenton route being improved with a variety or newer services. I think at some point, we could potentially see add on DLC's available like the Arrow III and NJT ALP45DP with Comet V coaches, which could then be substituted for those services that use other rolling stock. Really good to see that this will be following the prototypical NJT timetable for 2019. In some services, I have seen a few static hoppers along the sidings but to have more static trains in scene will for sure enhance the game play and make the route feel busier