Does Anyone From Dovetail Read/or Even, Scan The Forums?

So, I have to wonder if, as the title suggests, anyone from DTG actually bothers to read, or even scan these posts? My guess is, probably not.
How else to explain the ever increasing bugged content, the promised fixes that never seem to materialise, the continual pursuit of more money whilst blissfully ignoring the pleas of (previously), loyal customers who now are refusing to put their hands in their pockets, until they see what the forums bring up about the latest route/loco.
Once again, I notice in the roadmap (a joke if ever there was one, as the road seems to be going nowhere really), that there is no window available for TSW2 to be fixed. This, after being promised eight months ago now, that what they broke, they would fix. Perhaps, as people on here continuously beg, the firm had a small pause and set aside some time for rectification, we may become a little happier? After all, there seems to be a significant number of sub contractors producing routes these days, albeit unsatisfactorily, that the company could stop producing their own stuff for a while and work on their own bugged routes/locos and versions of the game. Who knows? Maybe Focus entertainment will give the company some much needed impetus to make the customer happy, though I somehow doubt it. In the meantime, I continue to see many more posts from disgruntled customers and that cannot be good for business. Stop what you are doing DTG and build a damn window!

 

They do read the forums. You see community managers and other dtg staff members interacting with the community. Even some of the dlcs were based on suggestions forum members made. Bugs are being fixed and it is being read. There is just too many posts in a single day that it is difficult for dtg to reply to every single comment people make.

However, several dtg members have stopped looking at forums entirely due to the amount of toxic posts calling dtg lazy and incompetent. Even Matt himself has to take a break from the forums. It is psychologically draining to everyone in the forums.

 

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ts19-réseau-renaissance.14205/
I guess the disaster was the main cause.

 

The roadmap stream pretty much confirmed that DTG will continue as is under Focus. So expect the same old gong show to continue. Sit back, enjoy the laughs, and thank yourself that you've stopped pouring money into this sinkhole.

 

I fell into TSC.

 

There has to be a balance and while, yes, the toxic posts with accusations of laziness don’t help, it’s also hard to avoid not starting to think there is something seriously wrong with the work culture at DTG. How else do we explain the rushed to release content or bugs that are never fixed. Full credit to Matt as he is burning the midnight oil trying to sort out and test solutions to the spurious SPADs on SoS. However that task should not be falling to the Executive Producer to undertake, it should have been thrown back to the route builder(s) or coders and been told you don’t work on anything else until it’s sorted and please explain why it was allowed to happen in the first place.

Pure speculation but as I’ve noted in other posts, seems to me DTG is top heavy with management and marketing staff but actual programmers, artists and route builders are thin on the ground. Otherwise explain the recycling of content as we are seeing with the 323, the reluctance to offer a reskinned Class 45 and DMU for Peak Forest and the fact route projects are getting shorter or in the case of PF, not going into a major railway centre/complex.

I really enjoy TSW at times, in fact yesterday I finished a run with the Class 40 on NTP, had a great time with the 158 on MML, finishing up starting a run on Harlem. I even weaned myself off Fallout 4 and TSC. But that doesn’t decrease the fact there is a need for some sort of management change and a bit of old fashioned discipline being brought into how the company operates.

 

Isn't it the producer or directors job to make sure these things don't happen in the first place?
I'm sure the devs arent working on flights of fancy in their little cubbies without oversight or supervision...

323 - people liked the train, and lots of people have said they want "full runs". Without being able to create Euston to Glasgow, this route does fit that bill. I know you'd prefer a full length intercity or regional route, but I'm not sure this route deserves the derision it's getting
Peak - My guess is they want to offer a steam experience first and maybe tack on the remainder a-la DLoGW, but principally the steam experience bit

 

Nothing
Will
Change

Buy the new DLC

 

Yes, they do, they mentioned it in the recent stream.

 

It is a difficult task and I appreciate your efforts. I read the forums regularly and sometimes it feels chaotic, for example there are bugs that have already been reported but a little later I see another thread created with the same bug. And it's logical because users are not watching the forums 24 hours a day.
So this is complicated for everyone, players are not clear if something they detect has already been reported or not, and even if by chance we have seen that it has been discussed we don't even know if the developers have taken note of it.

I don't know to what extent it would be possible to have an updated log by the company of bugs and errors that have already been noted and made accessible to players. This would not be indicative of how long it might take to fix nor would it guarantee that it would eventually be fixed, but we players would at least know that it is noted and we wouldn't see 10 threads dedicated to the same problem. And if we spot something that isn't noted we can report it with the confidence of knowing we are the first to do so.

 

Yes. They do read the forums.

 

Bit of a [EDIT - Jan - Language] thing to say really...because, it's pretty clear they do.
JD and Matt are pretty active, Skyhook's Jane is also very active.

I must admit, I never even bothered to finish reading your post, because it just ranting

 

Sorry, but are we not allowed to use the same train for routes anymore?

I honestly thought people would have common sense here, why do people always complain about new content not meeting the standard of the 323, but when a dlc is INCLUDING the 323, people whine?

So, if we get a ECML London to Peterborough, will people whine if a stretch of the WCML comes with the same 80x?

Sometimes I do feel bad for DTG, because they just can't get a break from all this negativity.

 

I don't see the problem with this new route, okay it is short but it reuses one of the best trains in the sim and is only £20. If it was £30 I would probably be moaning. If it was the main summer release and there was to be no more UK DLC I would also be peeved, it is clearly a stop gap/filler route which frankly I would be happy to see more of.

 

The other day, I saw two or three threads of people complaining about the GTD.
Well for me, I think they don't have to prove anything because TSW3 is an INCREDIBLE project they've made.
Thumps up for DTG

 

I’m not saying for one second they shouldn’t. In fact I’m one of many lamenting the fact DTG are not retasking the Class 45 and Class 101 into Peak Forest. And as I said in another thread, it’s high time our classic diesels released as traction DLC got their own shortish route - Class 20, East Midlands or Ayrshire Coal perhaps. Class 31, Birmingham New Street to Leicester or perhaps Peterborough to Ely. Class 33, Bath Spa to Westbury or Westbury to Salisbury. Class 40, Crewe to Chester or Aviemore to Inverness. Class 52, Exeter to Newton Abbot or Newton Abbot to Kingswear.

Just that the 323 and Manchester to Glossop definitely seems like picking low hanging fruit, to me.

 

There nothing wrong with a short route glossip look interesting to say the least as for the 323 i like the chance to get a nice emu for a resonable price.

 

As for promised fixes for TSW2: DTG probably shouldn't have made those promises in the first place. I'm hard pressed to think of a video game where support for the previous iteration continued well after the recent version was released. Maybe a follow-up patch or two, but that's it. With most annual sports titles, support is literally dead as soon as the latest game drops. Many of those older games feature bugs and glitches that will never be fixed, no matter how many are still playing them.

On top of this, DTG has the concern of making sure that 99% of all their previous content is compatible with the current release, a feature which is specifically designed to let players transition into the newest version without losing their DLC. Again, I'm hard pressed to think of another video game that allows this.

If TSW2 is in worse shape than it was eight months ago, that is unfortunate for those still playing. Fair or not, we're pretty much expected to update to the latest release if we're still following the series.

 

Having chosen this route ( Manchester to Glossop, who knew? ), DTG have little choice about which train to use.

It's fortuitous ( or deliberate ) because the 323 is popular( heck, even I like this emu )

Wishing they might find some other train(s) to toss into the ring, even as AI, I guess is whistling Dixie these days.

Still, if the scenery, timetable and gameplay are good, it might be worth $20.

 

Oh absolutely I think it is a shame that we don't have a mainline route for the class 33 yet. A route around Westbury set around 1976 could feature the 101, 33 and 52, the latter were used a lot on stone trains I believe towards the end of their lives.

I just don't think anyone at DTG seems to want to take the risk as apparently the desire is there in some quarters.

 

Ah yes I was forgetting about the Westerns working stone trains. In fact I think I have a picture in an old Bradford Barton book depicting that very scenario. 31's could also get a little route on the WR too but I didn't want to turn it into a complete Suggestions post, more to emphasise there is some recycling far more overdue than the 323. The 313 and 314 could also both do with another route or two.

 

Yes I agree, I would like to think we can have our cake and eat it in that we could have the 323 on the Hadfield line plus similar routes for some of the other trains too.

I always thought we would get a recreation of the Woodhead in blue add-on for TSC at some point but alas that seems unlikely now.

 

I dont see why it would be more or less unlikely now, if anything it's probably an easier route to do now. But on the other hand DTG have said that BR Blue isnt popular among the community as a whole sadly

 

If I ran a team at Dovetail I would strongly encourage them to avoid the forums. The level of negativity (literally right here in this thread from OP) would be terrible for their mental wellbeing.

On the other hand, people like JD are paid big (?) bucks to filter through the feedback and pass it on in a constructive fashion. So I'm sure there is actionable data that comes after you filter the ranting.

 

Do you read the forums? Then you'd know the answer - YES.

 

I hope you realize that TSW1 = TSW2 = TSW3.
Yeah UE got update but this will not make content completely inoperable.
If DTG would have to put in decent work to make it compatible they would most likely not do it or charge $ for it.
So that's no big thing, it's the least they can do actually.

 

I highly doubt they'll invest any manpower into a game that's being played by only about 150 people worldwide and does not sell anymore, which in business terms means nobody's playing it. TSW2 is dead as is TSW2020. Deal with it. Promises mean nothing in the game industry. There's no law that requires DTG to release updates. You are buying the software "as is". The people that code the game or post in here are not the decision makers.

 

The ironic thing is that the OP has created numerous threads all with the same complaint, and DTG have responded previously for example

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...t-the-promised-fixes.63321/page-3#post-617935

 

Put yourself in OP's shoes for a moment.

Say you lent me some money and I said "I'll pay you back!".
You'd be in your own right to come and ask "When are you paying me back?"
Would you accept an answer of "Sorry, but I don't have it right now."?
How about if you came and asked the same question every month, for about a year, and I always gave you that same answer?
How long would you be OK with that answer?

 

There is a difference between law and morality, and a difference between law and trust. As it stands I do not trust DTG to deliver an acceptable product.

I haven't seen anyone do that in this thread, and personally I try to stay away from any sort of speculation about internal goings-on at DTG - even stuff like "oh it's all the executives' fault".

 

I wouldn't say TSW2 runs worse than before. It's just left in the same state as when DTG abandoned it (still runs far better than TSW3 routes for me). I think you're right though, they shouldn't have promised fixes and plainly lie last year when they said they were pausing for a while to fix up TSW2 when their real focus was on a new paywall... err... game. And yes, people could just buy TSW3 and get some TSW2 route fixes today and avoid all the new stuff, but many also don't want to reward deceit. So these posts will keep coming up over and over reminding DTG that there are still people out there waiting on what they themselves have promised. They should have saved themselves the nonsense and just said they were abandoning TSW2, take the quick bandaid rip of backlash and they'd have moved on by now. But it's been their choice to prolong this for nearly a year now. Makes no sense to me.

 

There's a very large difference between someone owing you **YOUR** money and you wanting it back, and repeatedly making pointless, unhelpful rant posts on a game forum.

 

The forums are the most I’ve ever engaged about a game/simulator out of all games I have ever played. They are also the most I’ve ever engaged/seen engaged by a developer.

I’ve always thought from the start of my time with this franchise/company that the engagement by DTG staff is one of the highlight standouts of the company.

Great Work DTG

 

Naturally happening considering most of this community would consider themselves "Railfans", particularly the ones who jumped aboard early on.

I'm less into the technical things surrounding trains than I am about the actual railways themselves, but I, like virtually everyone else here, won't really take low quality stuff well.

The difference here is, "low quality" seems to have a very loose definition on these forums...

 

These posts aren't pointless. They bring up an

But these posts do serve a purpose to hold DTG to account for things that they themselves said. Look at what happened to the Trenton line. Enough posts which many would have characterized as "pointless", "repetitive", "negative" has caused DTG to review the route and to build an acceptable timetable.

 

Again, another unfair comparison.

The Trenton Feedback threads were generally constructive, calling out what was wrong with the DLC and showing what had to be better. Okay, some weren't anything of the sort, but most were.

This thread is just multiple topics thrown in one which started as a "do DTG read the forums", devolved through topics such as "the roadmap is useless" and ended up with "focus have to change the way DTG work".

It was an opinionated rant, with nothing really constructive.

 

Well that's just it! The game is NOT in worse shape....it's in the same condition it was in when DTG broke it. We are not looking for continual support, merely what was promised to us.

 

Yes, because the issues there were more complex. Here there is one problem with only one solution: release the TSW2 updates that were promised.

 

Unfortunately this shows you are either ignorant of how development works, or are choosing to be obtuse.

TSW1 (& 2020) were based on UE4.16
TSW2 moves to UE4.23 which sounds like a small change, but it wasn't, there were also game engine (ie TSW engine) updates which rendered some of the old content incompatible
TSW3 didn't change UE engine, but again there were core game engine changes, hence the difference in DLC

So TSW =/= TSW2 =/= TSW3. There are differences even if on the outside there seems to be very little, but then that's the key to development. You progress the thing you're developing, hopefully without impacting the player / user too much.
Unfortunately there are many many things with DTG try to do and "mess up" (change mess for something less savoury) which leaves a bad taste in the mouth, but I do feel it's disingenuous to say that the game hasn't changed or progressed in any way

 

I know which option I would choose!

 

I'm in this guy's boat......

 

Perhaps a better explanation would be: suppose someone gave you a quote to paint your house and on completion you found that the painter had made a part of your house worse than it was before. You would be upset, no? Then imagine if the painter agreed to rectify the problem and you accepted in good faith that this would happen, then after almost a year, the painter hadn't come good on his promise to rectify what he had broken, would you not be upset? My guess is you would. Well those of us who did not want TSW3, were promised that what they broke, they would fix. It was broken before they released TSW3, they acknowledged that and promised (yes, that is correct, PROMISED), it would be fixed, so in my opinion this is not an unjustified 'rant'.

 

Then you obviously didn't read JD's post.

 

And in that post JD said: 'I can't see them being released in March with how busy things are,'..........and there's the rub. They couldn't fix our version because....guess what? They were busy fixing the new version they had released. Further, that post was in March and it's now May. As to the 'irony', in my OP I said 'How else to explain the ever increasing bugged content, the promised fixes that never seem to materialise, the continual pursuit of more money whilst blissfully ignoring the pleas of (previously), loyal customers who now are refusing to put their hands in their pockets, until they see what the forums bring up about the latest route/loco.' A statement I thought covered not only the broken version, but the fact that customers are becoming fed up with rushed product requiring continuous fixes and patches. I.E. a noticeable decline in quality generally.

 

Well of course it is opinionated! It is my opinion based on the topics I see on these forums. Have a look at the TSW Discussion page for topics such as: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/enough-is-enough.69844/ https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ny-trenton-usa-content-is-still-severely-flawed.64885/ https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/a-modest-proposal.69792/unread https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/time-to-reveal-the-tsw-vision.69447/ https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/the-sand-patch-grade-derail-thread.56044/ Need I continue? These sorts of posts keep coming up and one cannot read them and then assume he is the only person dissatisfied with the way things are going.

 

So you know that they replied to you then thought it was a good idea to accuse them of not reading the forums?.

So basically just a rant post where you thought you'd bash DTG (again).

 

And in my opinion, justified. Maybe not in yours, but as I say, I see the posts on bugs, glitches and defects as well as noticing (as I said), a considerable number of erstwhile customers (myself included), stating quite openly that they will no longer shell out good money after bad until quality improves. I also notice as stated above the cries of same customers, asking for, if not outright begging, as well as politely suggesting that DTG stop putting out rushed content. And really, what's the point if not to make more money? After all, in my opinion, the game if treated as a sim, is about route learning and driving as if it were the real thing. Lord knows, I am still route learning quite a few of the 42 DLC's that I already own. How many can one learn in a lifetime? I would be prepared to spend were I assured of the quality of the product and that when promised, said promises are kept.

 

Let me say this slowly for you it...is...not...an...update....it is a fix we were promised and as far as I know is still coming (albeit when DTG can 'find a window') , and further, the post was not only about that, but also the apparent slipping in quality due to rushing new releases. Yes, I/we bought the software 'as is". However the firm decided to make it less than it was and therefore it no longer represents 'as is'.

 

'Enough is enough' was a pointless rant about how Glossop Line is 'too short' and also complaining about using the train that is prototypical for the line.
Basically, complaining before seeing the DLC.

'A modest proposal' is the only general (not DLC specific) thread here that is good. It's a humble enough suggestion to Dovetail basically saying "look, there's stuff here, here, and there, that needs improving and you should take some time to do it. It is not a worthless, unhelpful rant thread that covers about 4 topics with a sentence each.

'Time to reveal the TSW Vision' falls into that rant category, however it does have some constructive, noteworthy parts, particularly the bit where it addresses specific issues.

The SPG Derail Thread and the NYT Thread are both DLC-specific, so aren't really comparable to your own thread.

Conclusion: Rants provide nothing. Being constructive does.