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Class 47 Lacks Power Ntp

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by stujoy, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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  2. Trainzdriver328

    Trainzdriver328 Active Member

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  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    No, not really. Plastic Pal is mistaken. There may be a fix soon though as it has been in a testing phase, possibly including Plastic Pal’s friend as one of the beta testers.
     
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  4. Gilly

    Gilly Active Member

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    As Stujoy says no it isn't in anyway fixed. Just continue to pretend it's a 25 for now!
     
  5. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    I start to believe that plastic pal is the second account of synthetic angel
     
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  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Shhh.. you might alert the authorities.
     
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  7. arg987

    arg987 New Member

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    dont usually post on the forums but i might have some interesting(depending on your point of view) insight into this, and no i havent read the whole thread so this might have been said sorry if it has, but specifically on the 47 power issue ive seen a load of comparisons between the the 45s and 47s because of the fact there both running nearly the same sulzer 12lda yet the 45 is a lot more powerful in game despite it being on paper the less powerful loco while the 47 struggles to make 40mph. which is a very valid point but what i haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact the locos are running completely different electrics, the 47 is on brush designed generator, load regulator, field diversion, aux and traction power systems while the peaks are running crompton parkinson designed electrics which are completely different and in fact in real life the 47s are slower. thanks to loughboroughs finest the 47 runs 3 stage field diversion, field diverts if you dont already know are essentially in simple terms electronic gear changes, as the loco is moving the traction motors are generating back EMF opposing the generators forward current as this is occurring the load reg is exciting the generator to get more power but this has limited effect and eventually reaches full excitation at about 20 to 25mph so the load reg says ayup im all out so momentarily unloads the engine to prevent overload and slaps in the first divert which sends some of the traction motors current into some resisters weak fielding the motors decreasing the motors back emf and allowing the generator to put more power down and carry on accelerating until the back emf has caught up again and the hole thing repeats. a 47 can do this 3 times until about 75 to 80 mph where all diverts are in at full excitation on the genny. however cromptons 45s are absolute animals running 7 stage field diversion system meaning the 45 is dropping diverts in left, right and center every like 10mph something stupid which is what gives them there incredible acceleration and power and theres tales from the 60s and 70s where 45s were still putting power down at speeds of like 100mph take that with a pinch salt but either way the 47s can pull all day with no issue, the 45s are mainline speed machines.

    im not defending the 47 in game lack of power i dont even know if the game takes into account engine load and field diverts or load regs but in real life they are slower than the peaks because while they share a similar power unit are completely different so you could in someway say the 47 in game is fairly close to real life if maybe still being a little underpowred, engine power is only half the equation a good transmission is whats makes it, a good example is an 08 its 6 cylinder EE produces 350hp yet its transmission and gearing means it can start immensely heavy trains without trouble.
     
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  8. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Funnily enough, others have taken a similar view to yours initially. But there are some plain and brutal facts that point to the Class 47 being totally broken on PS4 and XBox, and they are:

    - the field diversion when you hit 31 mph does not happen on PS4 or XBox; and,
    - the field diversion does happen on the PC version of the Class 47.

    So - to move this on, all you need to decide is whether or not console players of TSW (which make up the vast majority of players of TSW) deserve an inferior product to PC players.

    If The Company believes that console players deserve much less quality, then the Class 47 won't be fixed. If The Company believes that the money dished out by console players has value, then the Class 47 will be fixed (very soon). It's not complicated.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
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  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’s all very interesting, I’ve seen some of what you say before but not in so much detail. The power issues discussed in this thread are concerned with the version in the game being different on consoles, where it is seriously underpowered, and on PC where it compares to the 45 much like how you describe here. When I first posted about this I didn’t know the full extent of the differences between the real 45 and 47, or the fact that the simulated 47 worked okay on PC, just that the simulated 47 didn’t appear to have anywhere near the power it should have.

    As far as I know the simulation engine takes into account all the field diverts and load regs etc. and is quite a complicated beast. You can tell on some of the locos when the field diverts happen and there is a nice boost in acceleration.
     
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  10. arg987

    arg987 New Member

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    Ahhh i use the console version and didnt realise the difference between that and PC i assumed they were simulated the same.

    i had also noticed this and the amp rise on the desk when a divert stage kicked in id love to see the technical simulation to see how it calculates divert staging and engine load or even emf in traction circuits shame ill not be able to
     
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  11. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum arg987

    There is rather a large amount of text on that first page isn't there.

    The answer to the consoles 47 problem seems to be this.
    Still a mystery it would seem!

    Interesting information about the locomotives, thanks. The 46, if I remember correctly, had brush electrics and probably behaved differently again.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
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  12. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - the console players, in this case, are "unlucky". Currently.
     

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