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Deadline To Fix The 155 And The Class 47

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by synthetic.angel, Apr 5, 2020.

  1. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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  2. DeStijl

    DeStijl Member

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    I can't believe this actually worked.

    Well played, Plastic Pal.
     
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  3. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Active Member

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    Anybody got the update on the Ps4 can anyone confirm that the 47 works as it should now
     
  4. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly the question I have in my mind. If they can fix one they can fix the other as they both have the same issue.
     
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily that easy depending on the cause of both issues, but they CAN fix these things. Wonder if it'll mess somethign else up in it's stead
     
  7. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    After the update and initial impressions are it's still making a meal out of the climb away from Bishops Lydeard with seven on. Will try on NTP.
     
  8. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, appears to be unchanged on WSR but is working on NTP, so it looks like they fixed just that one.
     
  9. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes - I can confirm this on PS4 (for NTP). Here is some supporting data, based on benchmark runs on PS4 for service 6E36 (Stalybridge-Huddersfield), with x13 loaded TEAs, running under "Air Goods". The following speeds were recorded at the approach to Standedge, having maintained the 15mph Speed Restriction in steady-state from the tunnel beyond Stalybridge:

    May 2020
    Class 45: 30 mph
    Class 40: 24 mph
    Class 47: 15 mph

    June 2020
    Class 47: 31 mph (having attained 34 mph for part of the climb)

    The June 2020 run was completed twice, with identical results.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  10. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the DB BR 155 (on RSN) and the Class 47 (on NTP) have now both been fixed, basically to the deadline, having spent years being broken..... which is nice. ;-)

    So..... anyway..... as an aside.....it looks like:

    The amount spent on legal fees = $0.00
    The amount spent on stationery/postage = $0.00

    Absolutely laughable.... isn't it..... mate.....? Ab-so-lute-ly...... laughable...... ;-D
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And all you, sorry Synthetic had to do was wait a few months...
     
  12. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep. A "few" months. One or two of them.

    - For the DB BR 155, it took a month.... after it being broken for a year, patched well within the deadline in the OP.
    - For the Class 47 it took two months... after it being broken for nearly two years, patched reasonably just after the deadline in the OP, given the release of the Class 20.

    So... not sure what your point is, really....

    Well.... The work is done now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Well either that DTG could have said "We're working on it" and satisfied the masses (you) or someone could've not flooded the board with mindless tosh and got themself banned (again...you)
    Either way :)
     
  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I quite agree.

    Well - both of the issues have been fixed now. You might find that disappointing, but I think DTG have done a great thing by addressing these issues. I say "Well done DTG".
     
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  15. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    How do you know with any certainty that it would have been fixed anyway? It's still not fixed on WSR that I can tell.
     
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think if all this fuss hadn’t been made by Synthetic, then we would still have a broken 155 and a broken 47. So well done him/her (I’ve never been sure). It should never have come to this...

    After just a few people reported the huge issues with these two locomotives, either through the support system or here on the forum, steps should have been taken to rectify them. When newer players like myself, last September, also reported the problem with the 47 and as Synthetic did with both, the issues should have already been fixed. Nobody should have make an absolute nuisance of themselves on the forum or threaten to inform the relevant authorities, Sony, Microsoft, local council, to get major bugs fixed, when there exists a reporting system and forum section that has brought the subject up many times.

    These weren’t insignificant niggles. The Class 47 was unusable on NTP. Two years of ‘We’re aware of the issue’ simply isn’t good enough. Let’s hope we never have to go through this again.
     
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  17. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I had a look on WSR, and I can't see a problem (?). Attained line speed (25mph) out of Bishops pretty quickly, up the 1% with x7 Mk1s.... and then had to reduce power to 50% for the 3 miles (as the crow flies) to Crowcombe (with a nudge up for the 1.3% grade).

    Can you give us some data on what you are seeing on XBox on WSR - I can only run these modules on PS4.
     
  18. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    I might be wrong. I applied full power pretty quickly and it seemed to hang at around 30mph on the climb out. I would have expected it carry on accelerating. On the climb up to Standedge with 12 or 13 TEAs I can understand 30mph. Will try again and see what happens.
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Well I have also ran it on PS4 but my test was to see how fast I could get it to go on full throttle on the grade that’s similar to the ones on NTP. It gets up to 34mph max. It’s never had trouble reaching the line speed on WSR due to it only being 25mph but I think it should get faster than 34mph. I might do further tests which will require finding the exact same gradients on both routes and the same number of coaches so it might not be easy and I don’t know if I want to go to that much trouble. I’m just happy I can use it on NTP now.

    Just seen Jez post this exact thing... as I was typing.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe
     
  21. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. That is the understanding that I got. Just how far do you have to go to get a critical bug on console recognised....? Neither of these bugs (DB BR 155 on PS4 and Class 47 on PS4/XBox) were recognised. When they were reported... years ago..... some of the devs actually came on to the Forum and said that they tested them, and they were fine. They tested them on PC.

    Again - these issues were actually dismissed until recently. It's only when it reached the point when it looked highly likely that they would be required to fix these "Must Fix" bugs, that they decided to do the right thing by the console players.

    It's a clear-cut Section 6 issue. And it is not lost on me that raising a couple of Section 6 issues, just before launch of TSW2.... would have looked double-minus bad, in the context of maintaining a "Right to Develop".

    A new method for tracking bugs and issues needs to be rolled out (and committed to) by DTG.... alternatively, the community could take the matter into their own hands:

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...ugs-issues-tracker-for-train-sim-world.23410/
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    You will earn the dismay of Jacob Rees-Mogg if you keep doing that. He doesn't like it when people "Thrash a Duff" in his neighbourhood.... you will disturb his lounging-around time.
     
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  23. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Okay on WSR. 47 vs 31 from a standing start on the 14:15 from BL and applying full power, the 47 got to 30 mph in 2:22 and topped out at 35 mph before arriving at Crowcombe at 34mph. The 31 got to 30 mph in 1:52, topped out at 36 mph and arrived at Crowcombe doing 33 mph. The 31 wheel slipped at start. The 47 didn't.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  24. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Aaaah. Okay - that would be an unreasonable comparison for two brand new locos of those Types... straight out of the workshop, running to specification. Or.... in other words.... it is a bit wrong on WSR (even if you pretend the Class 47 has been de-rated in preservation... which it will have been....., but not by that much....).

    It looks like they didn't fix the Class 47 on WSR then. Maybe a comparison with some MkIIs on NTP could be done, to confirm it.

    But I would ask this.... How does it affect game-play...? On WSR....? With the timetable on WSR, and the traffic on WSR.....? And the linespeeds on WSR...?

    Also - to put it in a wider context.... TSW is not the simulation that you might think it is.... I suspect that every loco/consist/route combo requires individual tweaking, whether that is regarding power, weights, effective Centre of Gravity of the consist...etc. TSW is not TS1.

    The real question is.... how bothered are you to have an under-performing Class 47 (compared to the Class 31)... on WSR....? Given that the Class 47 can now be used on NTP....? And that on WSR, it has absolutely no effect on "game-play"...?

    I am not a quitter.... but on this (Class 47 on WSR)... I will be quitting while I am ahead.... ;-O
     
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  25. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Active Member

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    This is absolutely Pathetic
    All I got to say is do it
    It won't work tho
     
  26. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    On NTP it seems fine, but I still have a feeling the 45 is a smidge quicker. I've done the 6E36 from Stalybridge and a Leeds to Manchester.

    It bothers me that the 47s don't perform the same on the routes and it does sort of stop me from testing any skill I might have of keeping a "full power" 47 to 25 mph over the varying gradients on the WSR.
     
  27. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Actually - this is a fair point. It isn't really a very good simulation of a mainline locomotive operating on a preserved branch-line. And if you have the 47 on both NTP and WSR, then you can't compare the experiences if they are fundamentally different under power.

    Maybe it should be the first bug to be added to this list:

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...ugs-issues-tracker-for-train-sim-world.23410/

    ;-)
     
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  28. LexingtonDelta

    LexingtonDelta New Member

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    ...if Game companys, and console makers were to take action becasue a game has a Bug, or a flaw..... what makes you think DTG is going to be the "this has gone to far" moment.? there are FAR worse game companies out there *cough* Bethesda *Cough* * EA * Cough*

    you are Demanding a small game company who is likely Working from home on what they hope to be TSW2 and bringing over some of the TSW 2020 content to it, to drop everything and fix some small bugs? if it bothers you enough to send letters or emails out to the Publishers and console companies, I have a better Idea for your time, just don't play it? Make a mod that fixs it?

    Seriously, Like i tell my children, If it bothers you like this, why do it? no one is forcing you to play the game.
     
  29. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    What?! I've paid money for the game, what do you mean no one forces me to play it? I think someone came up with this argument before and it's ridiculous. So in response to a product not working, you'd accept a "no one forces you to use it" response? You'd walk away happily from a new car not working with that response? Why should I make a mod to fix it?
     
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  30. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Well - it is done now. The Class 47 has been fixed on NTP. And the DB BR 155 has been fixed (sort of) on RSN. I am grateful that they have been fixed as far as they have.

    To answer your question though - when you pay a premium price for a product, you expect it to be functional.
     
  31. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    In this new age of honesty, the console version of WSR should, at the very least, have a large note saying something like "The Class 47 depicted in this game is faulty and does not perform correctly".

    Edit: And it should probably be given away for free or sold for a paltry sum if it's not going to be fixed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    When you say small bugs, the Class 47 bug was the equivalent of having bullets dribbling to the floor out of the barrel of your gun in a FPS instead of flying through the air into a cowboy/zombie/drug dealer/innocent squirrel, meaning you could never kill anyone and win the game. Imagine if your racing car got left chugging along at half the speed of all the other cars in your racing game. You would at least write a stiff letter to the game company. That’s the level of bug we’re talking about. Doesn’t matter if they are a small company, that’s not on. Fixing the bug still falls within their job descriptions, nobody is demanding anything unreasonable from them.
     
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  33. Dave Mel

    Dave Mel Well-Known Member

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    i still think the 47 on NTP is still underpowered then again i may still be wrong. i took a consist of loaded oil tankers out of Manchester to Leeds. coming up miles platting bank i got to the speed of 16 mph until i reached the station then had to shut off. all the way to stanedge tunnel i think i got to 35 mph -40 when the line speed is 50mph. it also struggled from Ravenscroft station to Dewsbury and beyond at around 30 -35 mph when line speed is 50 mph.
    one other thing ive noticed there is a speed drop sign missing on the crossover/points near ravenscroft approching from Huddersfield side on the fast tracks going to Wakefield/Healy Mills. i took them at line speed of 45 mph and nearly rolled it. surely there should be some sign or even on the hud saying drop down to 25 or even 15 mph

    at least its more playable now when it struggled before its update
     
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  34. DeStijl

    DeStijl Member

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    Maybe someone who owns both could do a direct comparison between the updated PS4 Class 47 and the PC version?
     
  35. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I can do this with a passenger train, on PS4 vs PC. Just give me a service to compare, and some data, and I will do comparison runs

    I don't have heavy freight for PC though... unless someone DMs me a Steam code for it.... LOL (I am just joking...).
     
  36. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    This was an interesting post by a member on another thread that might explain that.

    And yes at long last the 47 is fixed, on console. I need some cheering and waving smilies.

    I'll do a little dance instead.
    dance.gif
     
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  37. Gilly

    Gilly Active Member

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    I'll also doth my cap in DTG's general direction too.
    The 47 now feels like a.... 47!
    Strange experience to have to watch the speed instead of willing it on to try and reach the speed limit.
    Thanks to all involved be that those who pressured for it, those that listened, to those that did it. Good job!.... Finally!
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  38. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Interesting read. I might do a few more experiments to see how they compare now.
     
  39. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Glad you got those issues fixed Synthetic Angel / Plastic Pal. I know you drove alot of people here (inc. myself) on the forums absolutely bananas nagging them about the 155 issue in particular...just proves that sometimes being annoying does pay off ! :)
     
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  40. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Liquidshadows,Synthetic angel,Plastic pal. You got the 155 fixed with this overboard thread. Why stop here?
     
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  41. RT&F

    RT&F New Member

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    What`s the matter with the DB BR 155? I`ve been using it for a long time and I don`t see anything wrong with the Electric Container.:)
     
  42. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing wrong with the DB BR 155 - it is quite simply one of DTG's finest creations. A masterpiece that ranks right up there with the iconic Class 101, the bionic Baby Bullet, the histrionic Class 33 the laconic DBpbzfa DoSto.....

    Now that it has been fixed. It didn't work on PS4 on RSN. But it works now.
     
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  43. Deimenried

    Deimenried Member

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    It took me a little while to warm to the 155, but now it's my favourite of the German traction. The cab modelling is incredible!
     
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  44. RT&F

    RT&F New Member

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    What was the fault/what was wrong with the BR 155?
     
  45. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    According to DTG, here is what they fixed:

    Ruhr-Sieg Nord
    · Resolved an issue where audio could distort and cut out for certain locos (such as the BR 155) in some of the route’s tunnels (most notable on the PS4 platform).
     
  46. djhawtin1

    djhawtin1 Active Member

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    This Thread Is pathetic DTG Protagonist Lock this forum please :)
     
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  47. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's very gracious of you to acknowledge that it was worthwhile getting both the Class 47 and the DB BR 155 fixed. It's a shame that the process used had to be confrontational in the end... but these were DLC breaking bugs that had been allowed to rot and spoil people's enjoyment for years. They needed to be fixed.

    Regarding why stop here......? Well.... hopefully DTG will fix the Class 31 Cement Circle scenario bug..... very very soon. It will not be acceptable to have to wait two years for it to be fixed.

    I really don't understand why you are so antagonistic towards people that want critical bugs to get addressed. I would love to know if there is any reason for it at all.... I really just can't fathom it.

    None of the anxiety caused by broken features, and critical MUST FIX game-breaking bugs would have been necessary if DTG decided to maintain a public bug-tracker (that they also acted on). Even companies like Bethesda do that.... (they needed to with Fallout 76, because it literally had 1000s of bugs....... mostly fixed now though....).
     
  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't him it was Synthetic Angel, no longer a member of this site who was the campaigning hero, so Plastic Pal shouldn't really be taking any credit for it at all!!
     
  49. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Plastic Pal is synthetic angel... it’s just that synthetic was banned for being an irritating troll which is still the case with its second account Plastic Pal
     
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  50. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Hang on.... are you saying that getting the Class 47 and DB BR 155 fixed...was.... heroic....?

    Well.... I am sure that those involved (and it was a joint effort, over two years.... by very many people that reported the issues very many times) would be very happy to hear you say that.... Very many people deserve credit for it... and very many people reaped the resulting reward..... an utterly awesome DB BR 155....... and a fully restored Darling Duff ;-)
     
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