Dtg Have Abandoned Steam In Tsw

Maybe, but with what we have now and what we know about what work DTG did on manual firing it doesn't seem like they ran into a roadblock of the simulation being fundamentally broken in a way that prevented them implementing manual firing.

 

The fireman also realised that they don't need to do anything in Flying Scotsman either. Just sits back and relaxes since coal/water functions don't fully exist right now.

 

As far as I'm aware fuel usage has only been added with the Maintalbahn route. I was shocked that it hadn't been there from the beginning, because it's so easy to do. My friend told me that years ago he left a Class 66 at full throttle spinning its wheels pushing against buffers (don't ask why) for three hours and the fuel level didn't change at all. How they missed out one of the most basic things about a train that uses a limited source of power I don't know, but I hope I'm wrong as if Maintalbahn is the first route with fuel usage, that is quite embarrassing.

 

I remember asking way back in the beginning if TSW (diesel) locos and MU's consumed fuel and sure one of the faithful assured we they did. So now it seems not. What a joke as even if the runs are too short to deplete the fuel tank it should still be factored in. What if you were a complete madman and wanted to do a full 12 hour run up and down a route with a self contained unit. At some point fuel consumption might become an issue. It also means you can't do scenarios where fuel shortage might be an issue.

No wonder there's a preponderance of electric traction in the wretched game.

 

Did the 33 not have some sort of fuel usage simulated? I seem to remember a WSR scenario with it filling up the tank.

 

That's what I was wondering. It's way back but while there is no indication of fuel on the HUD as in TSC, sure someone said they had checked the external gauge on the tank after a run with a diesel loco and the level had dropped. Guess the only way to find out is do a run and see if that's the case. Class 45 on NTP here I come!

 

Will be interesting when the WSR update comes out and we now get water towers to fill up the steam locos. Perhaps an overfill or just sit there for hours with no simulation?

....

 

Does anyone know when contest winners be announced

 

With respect, your question has nothing to do with the subject of this thread - which is the issue of DTG's approach to steam traction in TSW. Please start a new thread or find one more suited.

 

I feel a new thread coming on. Went to start a run with the Class 45 on NTP and I can't see a gauge or sight glass actually modelled on the side of the tank.

 

The 08 shunter does have some fuel consumption modelled. If you drive it for a while, the supply tank (mounted above the cab) depletes slowly. You can replenish it from the main tank using the hand pump on the left of the cab - which is unrealistically powerful, taking just one stroke to move several gallons from solebar to roof height.

I haven't yet checked whether the main tank is correspondingly depleted, but my gut feeling is that the depletion rate of the roof tank is plausible. The 08 has an English Electric 6K engine, which is pretty big for the limited power output it produces. Half the displacement of the 37, but only about a fifth of the power output. So the parasitic fuel consumption at idle will be relatively high (but still a great improvement on the cost of running a steam loco, especially since you can stop the 08's engine, then restart it with little advance notice).

Most scenarios which ask you to refuel a train simply initialise the train with depleted fuel stores, and involve only a little bit of shunting to manoeuvre the train next to the fuel pumps, if that. I don't remember seeing one which invited you to refuel after doing anything strenuous or prolonged that would be likely to use a lot of fuel.

 

I could have sworn that at least one of the TSW2 U.S. freight routes had fuel usage. Maybe it's a thing that's implemented or not on individual locos/routes.

 

Fuel usage on diesels has been there from the beginning- the sim even adjusts loco weight as it's consumed. But it's never really been a factor because the routes are way too short for fuel consumption to be an issue.

 

I’m certain that it was simply a scenario and in any other case the 33 would not use fuel

 

I do think it were a scenario but I am sure that the scenario was added to show off the fact that fuel were used by the trains in game. This was about 3 or 4 years ago now so I could well be barking up the wrong tree.

 

It could of been Sand Patch Grade, it was the OG TSW route and it may of had the fuel usage carried over from its original version to TSW2. I do know it has scenarios where you have to fill a loco at the diesel rack in Cumberland.

 

As I stated in another thread, the Metrolink F125 does simulate fuel usage. As you run, the fuel quantity will decrease on the main display. Whether the engine would actually shut down once you reach zero is a different story.

 

The biggest immersion breaker for the Riviera line in the 1950s is the complete lack of superelevation.

 

Interesting. Assuming my friend was correct (although I don't have a reason to disbelieve him) it might be the case that fuel usage is implemented on a train-by-train basis. I doubt they would comment on this, but DTG confirmation would be helpful here. The wording of the Maintalbahn article is written in a way that suggests it is the first time fuel usage has been added, but they could have meant the first time refuelling as a requirement in the timetable. As I don't own the route, I don't know.

 

It's most likely the first time in TSW that they've made limited fuel relevant to driving technique in a scenario. There were already scenarios in RailWorks which had it, eg. I definitely recall one on SDJR with low water - and I also recall demonstrating how to complete it without using the injectors at all before reaching the water spout!

 

I can confirm, having just run a Class 66 service on ECML tonight, that you can watch the fuel load tick down on the computer screen as you drive.

 

And the lack of Rule 39a, especially galling as it is perfectly possible to implement in TSW. Thankfully GAD's Glorious Devon exists.

 

Which Class 66 is it though? My friend was driving the original GWE version.

 

Regarding comments about the Riviera Line in the 1950s, a firm favourite of mine from TS, I think I’d struggle to contain myself if that was available on TSW4.

A beautiful part of England, the 1950s setting and all that GWR motive power……

Marvellous !

 

Never using that one as you can't switch P/G brake timings.

 

Having played Railroader for a week now, for me it sets the standard in somewhat simplified steam operations.
While the locomotives are still in early access, probably WIP, they already possess features
reasonable modeling, you can add a mod that visually alters your loco by a slider, apart from the in-game customisation of paint, name and number
moving bell cord, throttle linkage, brake gear and reverser on the outside, awesome user selectable quillable whistles (even the bells change between the 'chords', synced chuff on slow speeds depending on throttle and cut off
cabs still a bit spartan, with only brake gauges functional, but doors, windows and hatches do open and you can lean out of the window
coal and water consumption that varies with load, over the small terrority of WA&SD RR, you already need to plan your water and coal stops or you run out of fuel, water, steam or both
while no match for the best of BMG, Caledonian or Victory Works in TSC, they are at least better than TSW's so far released steam locomotives

 

Well, it's nice to hear anyone in DTG make A statement on the future of steam locomotives, But in all honesty, the only thing I did not do was say anything as to what my thoughts are, and I knew this was the case just by what has been released, while the Flying Scotsman is a nice steam loco add-on, I do believe that it was completed as it is now, only because it was already in the pipeline and to be able to release TSW4 the way it was with the different tiers. It made sense to have more than just one or two bundled in for variety's sake, and while it, "Stoctsman" as it's been stated by many others, has its shortcomings, it's looked as something that was given to the masses.

But I personally believe much of Steam-related Locos were not in the long-term plans of TSW___ I say this because of the way some SoS scenarios were Patched, fixed, and yes bypassed as shown in this Video here that I posted to the 4th May - Update Feedback Thread back in 2023 08-13 and some of what was "fixed" was also made much shorter and simpler, in such a way that it bypassed the issue(s) that really needed looking into.

 

While its good to finally get an official response I have to say I'm very disappointed. As I suspect others will be.

Is there any thing regarding steam physics and manual firing?
Because as stated previously a lot of the content for steam is in a bad way especially the 4F and especially the FS.

And as someone who's invested in steam content and wants it in TSW its very disheartening to hear that it seems like they've been there tried that?

 

Thanks to Alex for responding but this does all rather seem to confirm what was said by the anonymous employee on Discord. No more official work being done on steam traction by DTG and no more official content.

So unless the third parties can get their stuff working better within the parameters already in place (somehow bring in better physics, manual firing, actual coal and water consumption), then it looks like steam is dead stick. I can't see Victory, SSS, BMG or Caledonia etc., wanting to dumb down what can be achieved in TSC - even just in Standard mode.

 

This is exactly how I interpreted the statement, too.

 

No more official payment from my side either on ALL tsw content. Except the 15% of the 85% heavy discount.

 

so one can silently consider the famous Simugraph is a dud when it comes to simulating a steam locomotive?
and DTG's famous 'market research' showed there is no demand from players for steam locomotives or any historic stuff either?
to make investing in a proper steam locomotive simulation worthwhile and commercially attractive?

no use beating a dead iron horse, no more spending from me on full price DLC anymore and even at half price I find most not really interesting playing value wise

 

Too bad the "famous market research" cant recognize a bad business case. It just has to be the customers fault.
How dare..

 

Interesting that no specific reasons are given for what is, let's face it, a complete abandonment of steam traction.

Is it just lack of interest, poor sales or too much of a technical challenge for the current skill level and/or Unreal?

So I guess we have to assume that no fixes or improvements will be upcoming for SOS, PFR or FS .

For me, the big disappointment is that there will never be any US steam locos in the game. Can't see any 3rd parties taking up a challenge that DTG has eschewed already.

 

To be fair to Alex, TSW3 and TSW4 weren’t on the roadmap, weren’t confirmed but were being worked on…

So maybe his statement doesn’t mean as much as is being concluded…

Sadly I fear it may, but despite physics flaws I have enjoyed my steam engine play in TSW.

 

Looks like a solid uninstall for TSW for me, sounds like they have trotted out the doesnt sell excuse again. I have been looking at TSC again and modelling to keep me busy, even with the 104 coming on not sure TSW offers anywhere near enough interest. The next UK route is another Snoozefest with an EMU and even the BPO route has ran its course for me.

 

To be fair, it is entirely plausible that steam doesn't sell well simply because the majority of players were born after steam was withdrawn from main line use.

You may get the odd young enthusiast, and there's obviously the older folk who adore them, but there's a difference when it comes to driving, and steam locomotives are hard to drive- precisely the reason why I haven't played SOS much, not touched the Flying Scotsman and haven't even bought PFR.

To me, I like them as AI only, driving them is nice but to me that doesn't appeal well.

 

Well, Simugraph is really just a framework. The problem is that DTG don't want to spend time and money implementing necessary parts of steam locomotive simulation into it.

 

It is good to get an official response. However we were told BR blue doesn't sell, apparently steam did but now it isn't going to be worked on. As much as I enjoy driving all trains including modern trains, if TSW's future UK content is going to be 95% traction from the last ten years (for example) it doesn't exactly represent much in the way of the tapestry of the fascinating railway development that these isles have seen. It will also push out quite a few users I would imagine. I will certainly be looking at what the future content looks like.

Does this also mean that there is no work being done to the AI steam sounds and the other steam issues, if that is the case then it is a poor show?

I don't think "unofficial" announcements are a very sensible way of leaking "bad news". It leads to confusion and frankly irritation. This place isn't Whitehall.

 

I hate to say it after all the money I have spent on it and I want to support the Class 104, but with the new MSFS coming out some time this year and SWMBO adamant no new computer until this one breaks (!), I'm certainly beginning to feel the HD space can be put to better use.

It's now two weeks and counting since I fired up TSW and yes there are elements you miss in TSC or other sims but it's not the end of the world. If the future of TSW is no steam or classic diesel, just £30 for half routes like Bernina, 14 mile modern electric commuter like Goblin or shoddy work like NYC to Trenton and Maintalbahn then yes it is time to shout game over.

 

So does that mean the manual firing mode is never coming? How long has that not actively been worked on? We were strung along since the launch of SoS that this was "coming soon". Unbelievable. It's almost worse than the TSW2 fixes, because it means this is never coming on any version of TSW, ever...

 

Thanks for the response Alex, very disappointed if I am frank but at least we know where we stand. TSW has run out of steam.

 

I echo the comments in this thread and I am very disappointed to find that DTG do not seem to care whatsoever about steam content in this game. I guess we're just gonna get a ton of easy to drive EMU's since they're more popular and can be operated by just about anyone with opposable thumbs.

#FixSteam

 

Re-reading Alex’s statement. “Currently, it's not something we're actively working on, hence why it isn't on the Roadmap content; however”

does not equate to we have abandoned steam forever and you have no hope of ever seeing another steam DLC. And I left the “however” in the quote because he goes on to state information about 3rd party interest, Read it as you will.

 

It’s interesting because, although I was born long after withdrawal of steam from the mainline, the fact that it’s more difficult to drive is why I like it. When I’ve spent some time driving steam, I tend to find when I go back to a more modern train, it feels a bit boring - not having to worry about boiler pressure, or even much about gradients or planning your drive over the road ahead. The 101 retains some interest for its interesting gears and braking system, and with older hauled-stock the braking can be a bit tricky, but genuinely modern trains I really struggle to find any interest in from a driving perspective - even though they’re the trains I know the best by far in real life, having spent most of my life travelling on them.

 

True, and I am not usually one to jump the gun, but combined with the "unofficial" comment it doesn't seem to bode too well. If third party developers fill the gap then that is great, I don't care who makes it.

Steam however isn't in a great state in the sim as it is. If Alex's announcement is only talking about new content then that isn't as bad but if it means that steam including steam currently in the sim isn't being worked on then for me that is not good news.

Maybe we will get some clarification.

 

If this is all we're getting as far as Steam content, i guess i would have preferred they'd put those resources towards improvements to the core game instead. It never seemed like there was an actual plan to develop Steam in a logical fashion- i wonder how much the whole project was imposed on the devs by the now former owner?

I feel badly for the Steam fans, and i actually was starting to enjoy driving then a little bit lol

Maybe there's enough of a skeleton that a 3rd-party could step in?

 

Anyone care to go through the threads at the time of Spirit of Steam's release and quote all the times we were told that they were working on manual firing and it was coming soon?

 

The only reason steam in TSW is a thing because of a vanity project. That should make it clear there never really was a plan.