1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hello? Matt? Where Is The Editor Tool?

Discussion in 'PC' started by GaiusGracchus, Sep 25, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GaiusGracchus

    GaiusGracchus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    45
    It's been months and months since the community received the last update on the "upcoming" editor tools, and at this point it's getting ridiculous.

    It's unfathomable how dovetail went through all the effort to create opportunities for complex siding operations (for instance, at the power station in RSN) without including any services or scenarios that actually take advantage of the track! If dovetail can't or won't provide them, why won't they at least push the editor so we can design new services and timetables!?

    There's a certain apathy to this forum (both from developers and posters alike) that's incredibly irritating. One only needs to look at steam reviews to understand community discontent over the way dovetail has handled the editor, bugs, and DLC (don't even get me started on the multiplayer promised before release).

    I love TSW, but I'm honestly beginning to believe dovetail has purposefully de-prioritized the editor in order to push DLC content-- e.g. the just announced release of an "all new route" that uses the existing terminus from RSN! For pete's sake, give us the tools to enjoy the routes we already own!

    And no, the community should not accept another long post explaining how the editor is "coming along nicely." If dovetail wants to show it's not just taking advantage of this community, milking every customer with a drip of DLC content, we need them to release the editor tool now, in whatever state it's in.

    -One discontented customer
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 28
    • Downvote Downvote x 2
  2. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    682
    Do you have any real evidence for your speculations?
     
    LastTrainToClarksville
    This message by LastTrainToClarksville has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Downvote Downvote x 10
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  3. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    72
    The continuing absence of the editor might be regarded as the evidence you seek... although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence I would suggest that the continued absence of the editor is evidence of its absence in this case. I remember in January there was talk of it, testing and so on. Its now late Sept. Thats a fairly glacial pace of development by any measure :/
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  4. Factor41

    Factor41 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    86
    Do we know what sales figures are like for TSW across platforms? If the stronger market for TSW has turned out to be consoles, while TS2020 is still going strong on PC, the editor may well have been reprioritised.

    I suspect that that console users, particularly those on the Playstation, are used to – and have more appetite for – a more tightly controlled and (mostly) stable gaming experience and are less interested in the kind of tinkering and third-party marketplace action that seems to be the nature of PC gamers.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  5. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    167
    Only if you promise never to complain about a bug in TSW again.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  6. metr0p0litain

    metr0p0litain Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    75
    Waiting for a software free of bugs means to wait forever.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  7. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    72
    Indeed, although the scale and impact does vary and so perhaps not quite as straightforward as might otherwise be implied. Major bugs or improperly delivered features should not become the accepted norm.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  8. solon

    solon Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    76

    Yes. for the moment the game does not work very well on console. DTG has a lot of work to do to improve and optimize its game. The editor does not interest console players. Especially as the next year out the new consoles. DTG will have to be ready with a game that works.
     
  9. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    682
    Do you want the editor N-O-W!!!!!, or when it's ready for use? Continually demanding its release will almost certainly not get you anywhere. Oh, and by the way, feel free to engage in another futile pastime by down-voting this post whenever you like.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 9
    • Downvote Downvote x 9
  10. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    657
    Agreed LastTrainToClarksville it is a waste of time to constantly demand something be released right away. DTG currently has the editor in closed beta testing. This is to ensure that before it's released to the rest of us that it works. They do not want to release the editor only to find out that users are complaining how it does not work and it wasn't throughly tested before being released.

    So like the rest of rest us you need to wait patiently until it's release, which hopefully will not be much longer down the road.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  11. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    470
    Likes Received:
    1,490
    Once I understood that there would be no public version of the Editor I basically gave up on TSW, which is one of the reasons I stopped frequenting this forum. I occasionally pop back when a new DLC released, to see what the reaction is, but nothing here really changes. I tried to tell people for months that the public version of the Editor wasn't coming, but very few people here seemed to listen. It doesn't matter how many deadlines DTG miss, how many years have passed since TSW was released or how few updates there are regarding the Editor, many here won't accept that the public version of the Editor isn't coming unless DTG themselves say so.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 9
    • Downvote Downvote x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    72
    I remember when the editor was pushed back over last Christmas and people were saying that it shouldnt be rushed. To save time this Christmas theyll be able to copy and paste their posts from last year. ;)
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 10
  13. metr0p0litain

    metr0p0litain Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    75
    People should keep two things in mind:

    1. The editor for TSW is the editor of Unreal Engine with some special tools.
    2. They are actually working with their kind of editor to create their own material.

    How hard can it be to finish this editor finally? The only hard thing I can imagine is the implementation of the community created stuff like routes and trains to the menu of TSW. But after more than 2 years of waiting, this is nothing more than ridiculous and disappointing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
    • Upvote Upvote x 8
  14. ferrolun

    ferrolun New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    16
    This silence about the editor is a lack of respect to users.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 15
  15. DigitalRails

    DigitalRails New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    16
    DTG left the chat.
    :D
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  16. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    88
    This has always been the standard for DTG, even when it was called RailSimulator.com.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  17. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    147
    It is clear that they surely have problems, to leave the publisher.
    But at the time, the choice of UE4, was perhaps not the best solution.
    We still do not have steam locomotives. It's absurd.
    Before launching with Unreal, DTG should have made sure that all this was possible.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  18. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    89
    Absolutely! Posted elsewhere myself here, I've been skeptical about the choice of UE4 over time but now I'm sure they have made the wrong choice
     
  19. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    369
    DTG said that steam engines are pretty simple. What is taking time are all the assists to make sure that everyone can drive then without having to read and learn anything.
    It's funny how trains have all the systems to enable various modes of operation but you never get to set up anything because the game does it all for you.
     
  20. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    72
    Incorrect. DTG have said the opposite. See Dmitris post in the following thread. Interestingly it appears to be a case of when not if. In that sense you are correct.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/steam-locos.14675/

    "Steam locomotives present even a bigger challenge due to their complexity, but it also means that when we do eventually release steam-focused add-on, it will be as good as we can make it."
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  21. GaiusGracchus

    GaiusGracchus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    45
    I understand DTG has work to do on console, but their inability to deliver the editor tool is both a let down to the pc community and, IMO, an incredibly poor business decision. Somehow, I don’t think DTG realizes how an editor tool could really grow the TSW pc user base. I seems they’d rather keep their ambitions limited, maintain a small dev team, and farm us players willing to shell out $30 every few months for extremely limited DLC content.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  22. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2018
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    259
    I think Steam has given too many people a voice. Where before communities were built on forums and sharing opinions it just turns into I want I want lately, there’s a desperation all around and Im not sure what’s caused it.

    UE4 is a completely different game engine to an inhouse built one which has an editing side like we’re used to, its all sign up to Unreal and then be able to subscribe or something similar.

    Too much subscription imho and there’s a lot we can’t seem to do from what I heard, the cooking process is a stickler from matt’s editor stream.... Im not 100% up on it either but we shall just wait and see.

    Go ahead downvoters it doesn’t mean anything.
     
    • Downvote Downvote x 3
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  23. GaiusGracchus

    GaiusGracchus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    45
    I obviously don't agree with every criticism in every steam review, but I think its fair in 2019 to expect a decent editor tool and community content for this game. Plenty of games using UE4 have editors, mods, and steam workshop content. If DTG needs to reach out to Epic or hire another dev, they should. These are the features the game has been sold on, after all.

    I understand the current working editor might as well just be vanilla unreal with some extra assets. Plenty of talented people will still be able to make something of it and give this community more content. Call me impatient, but this has gone on long enough, DTG should give us what they have.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 9
  24. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2018
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    259
    I agree and we can see with Microsoft’s New flight sim, those devs are working with third party devs and the community to get it spot on before launch.

    I think overall there is a lack, TML too is another one, a game without an editor of some sort is really bad. Hence why WOS and Fernbus have slowly died off due to unable to mod or create.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
  25. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    72
    Yup, one just has to look at the recent announcement of Kerbal Space Program 2- even at the initial announcement that there was even going to be a KSP2 they made modding support one of the big 4 features that were listed..
    Edit- this is not a criticism just an observation of how some titles embrace modding almost as a tech support outsourcing solution.. a lot of the features and bug solutions that are clearly a low priority right now would probably be fixed/delivered already with modding/editor support..
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  26. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    387
    The editor that DTG uses itself will only work on uncooked assets i.e. it's only useful if you want build a new route and locos without being able to use any of the existing assets that DTG have already created. Since most, if all, people will want to be able to make use of existing cooked assets then we need to wait for a modified version of the editor that can handle cooked assets. Bear in mind that the UE4 editor is only designed to use uncooked assets.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
    • Useful Useful x 2
  27. saint.russian

    saint.russian New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    21
    I believe what pisses people off is not even the absence of the editor itself, but a complete silence about it, and the community feels like they are waiting for something that (possibly) may not even be coming. I (personally) don't mind waiting for them to get it right, it isn't exactly the most burning issue in my life. However, I absolutely hate silence and informational voids.

    in fact, we are about to get yet another dlc thrown at us. at this point tsw is just another dlc farm. IMO DTG ows the community an explanation about the delay and to inform us on what's happening with the editor (even if they ran into problems, they need to come out and just say it). I am staying optimistic that they are working on it behind the scenes, however, I will continue to not purchase any dlcs tthat hey put out specifically because of their decision to stay silent.

    If the Editor that they definately were/are working on is under doubt, than what to say about implementation of VR that as I understand is in the "we will look into it sometime... eventually... maybe" stage?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
    • Upvote Upvote x 14
  28. DigitalRails

    DigitalRails New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    16
    +1
     
  29. metr0p0litain

    metr0p0litain Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2018
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    75
    +1

    Same for me. I will not support DTG anymore with buying new DLC's.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
  30. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    234
    Somehow I think Matt is laughing about this discussion because he knows there will be a content editor very soon. At least I hope this is what is happening now
     
  31. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    251
    If that is what is happening, perhaps it would be better to actually provide some response to the dissatisfied customers rather than laugh about it? Once he's calmed down of course.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  32. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    51
    Yes we must get some answer about this. Even if they stopped do developed it i want to know that.
     
  33. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    51
    Matt got a direct question in TSW stream about the editor Today. But he say he cant gives any information about it.
    So Dovetail have decided not to share any information about it.
    So which ones of these 3 can it be
    1: So they might be almost done, maybe release to Christmas
    2: They are still in development but it is far away. (3 year now)
    3: They have stopped developing it and they are not gonna release it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
    • Upvote Upvote x 4
    • Useful Useful x 3
  34. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    89
    Their silence is deafening
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 6
  35. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    167
    I imagine the situation is exactly the same as it was when the most recent 'editor moan' thread was published:

    Via my well-known secret backchannel to the devs, I can exclusively reveal:

    1. They're working on the editor.
    2. It's not done yet.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  36. spina304

    spina304 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    40
    • Upvote Upvote x 6
  37. GaiusGracchus

    GaiusGracchus Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    45
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  38. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    463
    Im on PS4 and the editor certainly interests me. We may not be able to create content on PS4/PS5 but Im hoping for 3rd party and even maybe AP packs, if deals can be done with creators,DTG and Sony.
     
  39. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    463
    Not sure the community would be happy for Dovetail to focus purely on the editor for 6 months in order to get it out there, resulting in no routes, locos, or innovation.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  40. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    387
    Rather more to the point senior management won't accept a six month hiatus in DLC development and release. I'm sure a major part of Matt's job involves the management of resources to achieve multiple targets in parallel. Getting the editor into an acceptable state for beta release has to take place alongside other activities.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  41. spina304

    spina304 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    40
    It's very good example, it's show how DTG tread forum member's . And one more. I took the topic from ts2020 because a lot of member's trying to defend DTG. They wrote something like :
    Yes we know about a tons of bugs in Tsw and a whole e-word thing .But Tsw is just about 2 years in market so we should wait and support them by buing every dlc. And give them more time.
    Very sad
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  42. TSW FSX

    TSW FSX New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    3
    really wonder from one side make new routes without any basic problem from the game and from the ather side dont give to us the editor and basic dont given to us any information for what happend to editor so many months no news to tell us what's going on or what is the stage to come or not to come to us.
     
  43. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    369
    It's because we need extra tools to be able to load and use content from the game. Also probably because they have learned their lesson from the TSxx where they released their tools as they are without any modifications and people complained (and still complain) about them being hard to use and poorly documented (they are documented quite well).
     
  44. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    51
    Right now they have a monopoly on making routes and locomotives. will not be so when the editor be released.
    So it may have with business to do this. But if another company do a route i guess some of income even goes to Dovetail.
    so it shouldn't be the reason. I really don't understand the silence. We get annoyed at them and I don't think they will either.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    March 2017 the TSW be released so they have a plenty of time to fix documentation and program.

    I've done a lot of advertising for train sim world in Swedish forums. It is very good in many ways.
    But not having an editor is a huge disadvantage. I can't even do a longer train. change place etc.
    and in the beginning I could stand it, but now it's been 2.5 years.......and dovetail is silent
    so it's hard to talk good about it nowadays.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  45. DigitalRails

    DigitalRails New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    16
    What if suddenly MS announces MSTS 2?

    They are back with MSFS.

    DTG have no competition in Train Sims...
    :o
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  46. byeo

    byeo Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    225
    Can anyone answer these questions about the editor.

    It appears that console will not get the editor which I’m ok with (PS4 user here) but if another company made a route with the editor and released it, would it be available on console or just pc? Basically, do you need the editor to play a route created on the editor?

    I think the reason the editor is taking it’s time is because DTG want a strong library of routes out which are available to the console users. Once the editor is out their DLC sales might take a hit on the pc side of things.
     
  47. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    51
    Yeah I think this can happen. Now they do flight simulator 2020 with stunning graphic over whole world Link
    Not impossible they want to have this as a platform for eventual new train simulator ( MSTS 2022......)
    Imagine making routes in this simulator.

    If it will be released, I think routes will be done in both console and Pc. They earn more money
    But some routes with very much graphic will just be to Pc ( Console have problems with such routes)
    But just my opinion
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  48. xD 2Bad4You

    xD 2Bad4You Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    684
    This probably depends on the situation. 3rd parties would need to work with DTG as the "publisher" of the route to put them on Consoles.
    So they probably would need to test them internally to see if the route can be handled on the Consoles or if the 3rd party needs to do some optimization. So the 3rd parties have to look if it makes sense for them. DTG needs to charge a fee probably to do the testing and putting it onto Consoles, maybe gets X % of the sales price and so on. Could be that a lot of 3rd party content creators just dont want to go through the possible extra step for maybe only a tiny bit more revenue if at all.
     
  49. saint.russian

    saint.russian New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    21
    Hopefully it's option 1, and if it will come that's great, but I won't hold my breath for it.
    To their credit, TSW is quite relaxing and enjoyable as is. We all just want it to be even better.

    I will also add that this situation with "can't give any information" is kind of suspicious, because if there was a progress... something, anything!... would they be so tight-lipped about it, especially when there is sooo much pressure from the community to know? I'd hate to say it but they may have decided on Option 3: not to release it (at least it in any foreseeable future), but wont tell us that, and are just dragging out time. So it is very possible that DTG are letting us wait for something that they know is not coming (again, really hoping I'm wrong), similar like in the patch in the above mentioned thread... "its coming...it's coming... coming soon... no info, but its coming soon...." .... and eventually nothing.

    In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if in reality the editor has been complete and ready for release, but they just shelved it for whatever reason.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  50. byeo

    byeo Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    225
    I’d like to think DTG will implement some sort of agreement that if 3rd parties want to use their editor and release routes then it’s on the provision that they will also be available on console too.

    Why limit console players to just DTG created routes when DTG can make more money if 3rd parties can work on additional routes at the same time. More routes, more often, more variety, more money and everyone’s happy.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page