Upcoming Release Master The Electrics!

I am not, and besides that, it is neither my not your concern how to deal with that topic. The only thing we can do is make suggestions, and here is mine.

DTG could follow the example of the Hitman Forum, who created a secret board with threads about leaks and the devs politely asked the community to not let it spill over into the usual forum parts. You access it by asking one of the mods for a "tag" that allows entrance. Normal users and people browsing for advise don't even see it. And it works greatly. That way, the devs can have a condensed overview on what's leaked and it's not public knowledge the second it's been posted.

DTG JD

Not sure if possible or even needed here, only a suggestion.

 

I found an interesting video on youtube. Could this be the museum railway tour that was posted in the article?

 

It's a constant problem on the forums. Posters voicing their own opinions, yet claiming to speak for everyone, using words like " we " and " all ".

We don't all experience the same bugs or problems, unless it's a platform-wide issue like 64GB. Even the red light concerns on BML and Harlem are not universally experienced.

How about trying " I " or, perhaps, " some of us. "

 

I mean part of that is due to the real life nature of rail in those countries. DTG doesn’t create new trains just to populate AI layers, they only take from the catalog of what they already have in prior DLC.

Germany has nationalized rail and a unified network. The same red DB locos appear all over the country so in TSW it is easy to layer and sub them on multiple routes with no requirement to change the models.

Britain decided to privatize their network so there are dozens of operators with different liveries and branding. So even routes where the correct train exists in the game (ie HST at Birmingham) they can’t just layer the current HST because the livery and interiors are all wrong, they have to build a Crosscountry one nearly from the ground up which is a lot more work than the German routes need.

Maybe when the Great British Railways brand takes over things will be easier for DTG but that’s still years away.

 

Still it would be wrong to see the 110 for example in front of any IC on HRR.
The 110 was never regularly used in front of long-distance IC trains and the few Fernverkehr 115 (renumbered 110.3) were only used on a few trains, mainly the IC between Stuttgart and Zürich as they don't run on any high speed line. Those were Swiss carriages though.
Otherwise the 115 were used for Fernverkehr ECS (not EuroCity but Empty Coach Stock, named PbZ in Germany), so many photos with white IC coaches may show these.
Before the 115 were assigned to DB Nachtzug and pulled motorail trains.

 

DTG Alex, DTG JD I have a question about layers.

1. Article info:

2. Stream info * no word about HRR, HBK, DRA:



The questionable part is this:

Nahverkehr Dresden's BR 185 (with Zacns and Falns wagons)
DB BR 101 + MRCE BR 182 from Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr and Hamburg-Lübeck.
DB BR 363 from Nahverkehr Dresden

Are HRR, HBK and DRA layers for this route? If so, could I ask for more precise information?
saying layers I mean additional traffic

THX
BR o7

 

These were the trains that were available on the route. The ones that came with the pack were the 110, cabcar, 155 press and the 425, the others are all layers. Note ICE1 at the bottom.

 

not the substitutions but layers what mean additional services?
EDIT and what with HRR? The host for the 101?
thx 4 your answer!

 

204 and G6 were also noted to be available that substitute the 363, just not installed at time of streaming

 

The BR 110 on stream sounds amazing, exterior sounds are spot on and sounds like the real thing. Good work TSG

 

This is fantastuc news!

 

Yes. Layers and substitutions. The freight locos just sub in. 101 adds services in (unique ones too such as it hauling freight). Skw for ice1 adds a good amount of services. There's also the 612 from dcz. 363 adds museum runs. There's also a lot of ai only services

 

The BR110-3 is going to be interesting to operate with a rail driver. The tap wheel, I figure, will be put on the rocker switch and not the throttle. Be interesting to see once I get it.

 

Nice improvements, but once again... this should now be implemented in the previous version. All versions should be up to date. We now get a new loco (two actually with 425) that behaves in two different ways based on which one you select... This mess is only getting bigger, DTG...

 

Just one correction and I hope it will be changed:
Since the cab car still has it's luggage doors behind the cab, it's technically not a Bnrdzf 463, but a BDnrzf 463. Bnrdzf were the cab cars which had their luggage doors removed and a window in their place, the luggage compartment was rebuilt into a multi-purpose compartment with folding seats and bike racks/straps. In fact the unrebuilt BDnrzf were quite rare at the end, almost all were rebuilt into Bnrdzf.
I'm quite surprised a cab car with luggage doors was chosen as well as why a 110 with MFA and LZB was chosen - most BR 110 didn't have a MFA until the end.
But still - finally a 110 and n-Wagen for TSW!

Edit:
OK, I watched parts of the stream now and I'm quite disappointed. The ampere meter is totally off on the 110 and doesn't work at all like in reality. The BR 110 had a maximum ampere of 400, later 350, and going over the maximum ampere would lead to an overload and cutting the engine out. Matt overloaded at around 70-80 ampere. (why should the ampere meter have a scale up to 500 when it rarely goes above 100?)
Matt explained you should look at the newton meter when accelerating, but you would only do this when running up from a standstill (as giving 350 or 400 A from a standstill would cause wheelslip in most conditions) - later you have to look at the ampere meter because especially at higher speeds you would easily reach 350 A before reaching 60 kN.
Later in the video the ampere meter reached around 130 without cutting out the engine, so I am not sure on what condition the engine is cutting out, but it's not "physics" like often said about TSW...

 

There are two conditions where the MCB pops out. First, the transformer input sides current draw from the wire (Oberstrom). That cannot (should not) reach 420A at a standstill. The max current of 420A can only be drawn at around 80kph and above when the motors getting the max voltage of about 520V. That's also why the possible max TE starts dropping at that speed (roughly 280kN max.). The second condition is motor current (Motorstrom). That can reach quite fast a point where the motors can burn out (somewhere between 3000-3700A) and therefor the loco cuts them out when that happens. Since this loco uses a high voltage tap changer with an attached low voltage transformer (W29t Hochspannungschaltwerk mit Tyhristorlastschaltern) and uses no active filed weakening (Feldschwächung), you can easily overpower the motors at a standstill after a few seconds, even with only a few amps from the wire.

Maybe i'm completely wrong, but i read a lot about that stuff before i did that loco.

 

So I’m guessing without weakening the field the 110s are not as good at achieving higher speeds? With DC traction-motored units that I’ve worked on, weakening the field helps gain that extra speed due to it reducing the back emf allowing more current to flow. Without reducing that back EMF, the traction motors will eventually just hit a wall with a lower running speed no? Or is it that by just pumping enough current through the traction motors, then it will just get to a higher speed?

 

I'm not an electronic engineer so, i can just tell what i read. Field weakening is mostly used to gain more torque out of ta slow running motor at lower voltages but more umpf (Ampere) and also to stop the infinite acceleration of it at higher rpm to not destroy it. The motors used in the 110 can theoretically spin up to the point where they mechanically break when there is no field weakening. Of course, they will not have much torque then anymore, so, the loco can maybe reach 200kph with it before it gets stuck at that speed. These old locos are highly inefficient i would say. Lot of the current just generates heat.

 

I couldn't tell what Matt was doing wrong but he kept getting caught out by something that wasn't a safety system per se but cut out the engine as you describe. It seems the 110 might need a bit more of a tutorial about this sort of thing.

 

I noticed several of his cut outs were caused by either SIFA or Exceeding about 60Kn, didn’t particularly notice any other time.

I’ll have a watch back through of the stream soon and edit this post back if I find one those wasn’t ecountable

first edit:

Noticed a total number of 7 in the first hour of the stream

train stops/cut outs (not station stops) during the stream.

1. The first was to demonstrate what happens when 65KN ish is breached
2. 
   Right hand doors not closed properly resulting in what appears to be an interlock remaining, once doors were closed brakes released.

1. Second demonstration of 65KN ish breach

1. Either accident or intended 65KN ish breach

1. Quite hard to tell but either breached the Kn Restriction or done something with the brake handle, the thing I think happened was the brake was applied whilst not powered down on the tap changer as Required.

1. Did not acknowledge PZB at Light as Required

1. Did not slow down enough in time for 500HZ

I’ll continue to check the other hour tomorrow of the stream

 

Is there a reason Germany has locomotives and went to the trouble of putting screen displays in them but never have them working? Noticed it on the stream with the 110 and N-Cab. Or is it just they do work but in the stream noone turned them on? If this is the case how do you turn them on?

 

Tsw does not have ebula simulated, so that screen is just empty. And you can't really interact with the screens cuz they also need to be set up as interactable which takes time to implement. Some functions you wouldn't use I'm assuming, but then again I know nothing about german trains other than they exist. You could change the destination, brightness, etc but that's about it.

 

You don't want to go above 65kn cuz it would cause the engine to shut down. So it is all about adding a little bit of power over time to make sure you stay below that. Another issue was that the safety systems were not audible from the outside such as sifa and unless you really are looking, you don't know sifa is going off unless you hear it go off

 

Let's not forget, the 110 is nearly as old as the EMD F7, and older than just about any of the "old" British diesels in the game. This is really antiquated technology from the age of vacuum tubes and cloth wiring insulation. Like a Fender tweed amp.

 

I thinking that they were inefficient too hahaha. Thanks for clarifying, I’m not used to Tap changing so it’s a new area for me haha. Cheers for that

 

I haven't watched the stream but it seems very similar to the first gen UK AC electrics with the tap changer. You cannot just run up to 100% and let the electronics take care of it. You need to tap up gradually and not go into the red zone, on the UK stuff. If you have WCML North and or Shap on TSC, take a drive or two with the 86 and 87 to refresh how it's done.

Likewise running down from full throttle takes 30 to 40 seconds, which is why you need to think ahead for neutral zones (not a feature in TSW) or braking.

I actually think this could be quite fun. I just need to decide over the weekend if it's £30 worth of fun. By chance, did anyone mention how many runs are in Journey mode?

 

Watched the stream last night. Looked pretty good imo. Will be a day 1 purchase. It will probably be the last one as I'm nearing 50 DLC's on my PS4...

Only niggles I had are:
- PZB on the 110 needs to be fixed ASAP. Dashboard lights did not blink 70/85 when PZB was in restricted monitoring, only the 85 light was blinking. Matt noticed this, but said it wouldn't be fixed before launch Hope we won't have to wait months before this is fixed, as this is a pretty big oversight.
- The 'train-barges' are a nice folly, but as a gen8 user, I can't help wandering: if these were taken out of the route, would that free up enough memory so we could get back some of the content that will currently be cut out of the gen8 version of the route. I would much prefer the ICE to be included iso the barges I will probably never pay any attention to.

 

I found this interesting. This bug found its way into the TSW world with the ICE1. Despite highlighting this in various threads there was no word or acknowledgment from DTG. At the time I thought it had something to do with the new MFD layout of the modernised BR401, however, now it seems something more fundamental…

 

OpenMinded Interesting. I hadn't noticed it on the 401 yet. Probably because a lot of time is spent in LZB. I'll have to check on that

 

I mentioned it in point 3 of this thread:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ice-1-afb-pzb-behaving-badly.61215/#post-570085

 

So I also watched the stream and… I’m flabbergasted! This is lookinh unbelievably good! The only thing I noticed that is a bug is the already noticed PZB-Wechselblinken which is missing. On the other hand:
There are soooo many small details I like!
First of all (which is the biggest) the cars are actually driving towards the level crossings and stopping there!
Secondly, I really like the fact that there are the names on the Br425!
Third thing: The new collectible map looks great with the additional information on the routes that go off the mainline
These are only three of them, but there are man more!

The only thing I was wondering about is, that as Matt was driving the Br110.3 the PIS on the cab car showed “Nicht einsteigen” although I thought that since an eternity they displayed the destination automatically?

 

It is a hand cranked destination display in the cab car that is not set automatically. I assume that when you start a 110 run, you will have to move into that cab (walk or control +/-) and change the display appropriately.

I was quite impressed by the stream and look forward to some old school driving with the 110 and the cab car.

 

Field weakening has the exact opposite effect. It is used to gain higher speed due to lower reverse flow current. At low speeds field weakening reduces the torque. In case of the BR 110, I guess the missing field weakening means, that a low resistance motor needs to be used, so that the high speeds can be achieved without it, however for low speeds this means the motor can easily overheat itself and this causes the cut out.

 

Ok, then it is this way. Thanks for the clarification.

 

I'm happy that we got the E10 with the N-wagen but it's really sad, that we didn't get another new train

 

Creating new trains take a lot of resources to make from the model, simugraph, setup, new features, passenger carriages etc. It's not a simple task anymore. It's not always possible to make completely new trains each dlc release. And besides building the locomotive and a cab car is basically building 2 locomotives cuz you each side behaves/ is set up differently. And we got 2 reworked trains

 

Yes, but hasnt Bremen Oldenburg the Most new stock on a route in a while. One absolutely new loco (No traxx etc) and entirely new coaches with a cab car.

When was the Last time we had a new train set, not just a single new EMU/DMU per route, complete with a cabcar, abeit no 1st class coach. MSB?

 

"First class" in an n-Wagen was always kind of a joke anyway. Even modernized, it ain't all that:



(This is the same rebuild set as the game-modeled 2nd class coaches, one undertaken in the 90s by OFV of Verona, to go with the "Mintlinge" turquoise-green exteriors)

 

First class on regional services is always a joke, i mean even the 422 has a first class section. (Which are the same seats in reverse colors)

But there are two real compartments in the First class section i think, sat there illegaly when they ran replacement trains here, as the guard was only there to explain to people this was really their train instead of checking Tickets.

 

In Poland mostly it is about 3 vs 4 chairs in a row with is a huge difference in a long trip

 

It used to be the difference between getting cloth/fabric seats in First or the plastic/leatherette in Second class.

I never forget my first trips to continental Europe in the early 1980's how spartan the trains were compared to the (relative) comfort of UK second class with its fully upholstered seats. The exception were the Scandinavian countries (you always hoped for a DSB UIC coach on the through trains from Hoek Van Holland to Kobenhaven) and, believe it or not, Austria. And the Swiss internal stock was like sitting on green floor vinyl/lino in their second class. Not good for the posterior!

 

Wow, what did I miss in a few days. Br 110 and n-Wagen in TSW? Karslruher Kopf? Am I dreaming? I’ll be watching with great interest. Here’s hoping the 110 lives up to my expectations based on Zusi and a simulator using a real cab I got to play with in Koblenz-Lützel at their summer festival 2022.

 

Yeah, this is awesome \o/

 

Well, I caught up in the thread and skipped through the preview - only felt right that I do so as quickly as possible given that I was always protesting for getting Einheitseloks in TSW. I like the (somewhat unrealistic) substitution as I’ll want to run the 110 as much as possible but I didn’t hear the distinct sound of the taps changing all too clearly. I’m hoping that’s just on account of Matt’s audio settings and talking over it. I have faith in TSG. In any case, I’ll look for myself once I’m back in Germany.

 

After watching the stream, I am even more excited for this route than before. Even if I will not get all the layers on my PS4, this is a 100% day one purchase. So many positives in my opinion. The 110, Karlsruher Kopf Cab Car and the route itself looks stunning. Is it the 6th yet??

 

If you are talking about the click clacks, they are audible more from the outside. He did an external view and you could hear it.

 

BTW what's this cab car look like?It doesn't sound like a dopplestock type.

 

It looks really impressive. It also looks to be a blast to drive! It is certainly unique; you should check out the timestamped video. I have a feeling the cab car, n wagens, and 110 are going to be my favorite TSW train set - though there is stiff competition from the 101!

 

It's in the preview video. Brake stand is similar to that of the locomotive. It's got like a lapped throttle. Hold it in run up and you get more power but if you apply too much, your engine shuts off. Explained better in the video.

 

I think what you miss is not in this loco, unfortunately. It uses the W29t tap changer what is barely audible in the cab and even quiet outsides. What you want is the N28h tap changer. But only the older types of the E10/110 using this.