Merging & Extending: A Proposal

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by trainsimplayer, May 1, 2021.

?
  1. Good idea, should be used when the routes in game allow.

    87.5%
  2. Maybe change a few things (Comment)

    8.3%
  3. No Opinion

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Don't care

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. No. Just no.

    4.2%
  1. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Introduction:
    As we all know, currently routes aren't planned to be merged (if the routes which could be merged are added) (if they share any stations, that is, mostly because only 2 do, one of which was left behind on TSW2020, and the others share a terminus and not a through station.) for the simple reason if it could end up getting too long, and no longer able to perform well, as for extensions it's DLC to DLC but is doesn't have to be, I'll come back to that.

    Merging Routes/Services
    As we currently don't actually have any routes which have a case of: Route A: A-B & Route B: B-C, I'll have to make an example.
    Let's say it's the well requested Great Western Express extension to Oxford. (Which is kinda feasible to just be added to route, its about the right length, but we'll go with it for now).
    So say Dovetail released a new Reading - Oxford route, and you buy it. So your on Great Western Express (the real one) In your HST, and you arrive at reading, you open the doors, and you receive a pop-up:
    (Owners of both routes only obviously):

    Service Continuation
    You have reached the end of your service on this route. Would you like to continue on Great Western Express: Reading - Oxford?
    Continue Service | Finish Service
    Finishing:
    If you click finish service, your service ends and you get the graph, so the usual.

    Continuing:
    If you choose to continue, you will now recieve a loading screen. Now, you will be loaded back in on the other route (so in this example GWE2).


    As for extensions:
    People think extensions have to be DLCs to DLCs (one may argue that's what a loco dlc is however I won't get into that)
    Thing is, they don't, have to be
    Yeah, if it's a short branch line it probably would be, but if it's a mainline (Say Chatham Mainline is added, for example) you could just get the Chatham Mainline as a standalone route, without needing SEHS. If you have SEHS you could use the above system, so when your driving on SEHS on a Victoria bound service, when you are at your last station on the SEHS section you would get the above pop-up.

    In conclusion, this means that owners of two, seperate routes can drive a continuous service with the only gap being a loading screen.

    Thank you for reading.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    3,530
    This really the best option for getting longer routes. In the case of linger routes matching timetables will also have to be made, but the new functionality introduced with DLGW could amke that a lot easier.

    I actually made a suggestion for joining routes exactly like this a while back.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    How many times dtg have to respond to this is beyond me . Route joining and extensions are technically difficult to do
     
  4. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Termini:
    The suggestion above is for Through stations, mostly. So how about Termini?
    Well, it's quite simple actually.
    Let's take Glasgow Central, coming to Glasgow Cathcart Circle.
    However let's say Dovetail also went out and made West Coast Mainline North to Carstairs or something (it's an example)
    So, at the Station the trains from both routes would show up. However, When you climb aboard train A which is going to Station A, on the WCML, if you sit down In the cab or the carriages, you are loaded into the WCML version of Glasgow Central (lucky you if you were already on it) However, if you go into a Class 314, and sit down, you would be reloaded into Glasgow Cathcart Circle (unless you were already in WCML, then it's just loaded). As for a station like Gillingham (SEHS) if you were taking a train to Victoria from there, you would change to Chatham Mainline (just an example) at the last station on SEHS.
    Thinking about it, the Termini idea is kinda pointless isn't it.
    You could just load in the route you want to drive.
    The Original Post Still stands, however.
    I guess I was mainly thinking along the lines of "You terminate on route A and then do a service on route B".
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  5. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Thing is though, I'm not asking for the routes to be made into one, I'm saying when you finish the service on route [A] you could continue on route with a loading screen to switch you over.
     
  6. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    This might have some technical challenges , and even when you would sit down it would take a while to load , which isn’t what happens on a train irl
     
  7. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    3,530
    This doesn't require the original route, that has already been baked an already has paths for trains, to be edited. That is were the issue with an outright merger lies, as the work required to make new paths, etc. is enormous. And then we haven't even touched upon system limitations potentially preventing 120 km+ routes.

    However, with just loading in the next route via a loading screen, this issue is negated, and it would therefore be an option.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    Personally I would rather have something limited but realistic than something with unlimited possibilities and a fantasy world
     
  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    3,530
    Yes it would take a while to load, it's a game, you can't get around loading. This would at least not be as immersion braking and slow as having to exit to the menu, searching for the correct route and service, and then manually loading that in.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  10. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    3,530
    I don't quite understand what you're trying to get at with that?

    This suggegestion actually provides a more realistic approach to allowing services to be continued across multiple routes (compared to outright route mergers, which would be the unlimited fantasy world you refer to).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Exactly. The game still has to load the route in the first place. Plus I'm saying that it unloads everything from route A and only has the stuff from route B.
     
  12. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    To make it clear.
     
  13. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    3,530
    Basically, this is just an efficient menu shortcut, and not a merger. And therfore it's more achievable.
     
  14. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Yes, it's a way to have multiple services as one across multiple routes (so basically the point of any merger anyway) without having to put to much strain on the game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    Connecting the routes physically is relatively easy, TSW2020 had mods merging NEC with LIRR and RRO with RSN. The one-man team did that, so this part is pretty easy, it's probably safe to assume that parts of the routes (Hagen, NY Penn) are copied from one route to another, so it can be put together.
    The problem comes, when you factor in the timetables, those can collide and create problems... but DTG solved that recently... multiple timetables. Connected routes could have their own timetable taking both routes into consideration. As much as this "continue service in a different DLC" solution would probably work, it kind of kills the idea of extension and would work only in specific cases. Freight trains for example wouldn't necessarily stop at the merge point, they might go through. Many times mentioned MSB extension doesn't have ICEs stop anywhere but both ends of the EXTENDED route. Stopping in Lohr to ping into the other route would not help immersion a whole lot.

    In the end, with Diesel Legends DTG solved the main extension problem, so it's probably time to put it to a test, most likely with RRO and RSN.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    What I’m getting at is simple . Don’t ruin the game to make it a completely unreal world , just keep it limited and realistic
     
  17. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    My example of a 2nd (Seperate) GWE route with the changeover at reading would probably suit it well. After all the GWE2 timetable would be restricted by the current GWE timetable
    (To be fair, GWE to Oxford being physically merged probably isn't out of the picture. It's not that long.)
     
  18. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    How long is it exactly ?
     
  19. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    You could argue by having every route treated completely differently with no continuity is more fantasy.
     
  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    3,530
    I mean, yes it would be possible. That is the way I'd prefer to see it too and I really hope that can be done, just because it would be smooth as butter.

    However concerns about the strain of 120 km+ routes for consoles remain, and if that really is an issue this might be the next best option. There should also still be an option for people to end their service without driving the entire length of the combined routes, while still getting results.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    My sources say ~26 miles.
    So add that to GWE.
     
  22. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    I personally would rather see physical merging however, until a way is figured out (if, ever.) This is the most feasible and likely option. I actually took a bit of the concept here from your suggestion for this kind of set up, just a few tweaks.
     
  23. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    But that is easily correctable . Something like merging routes is something that if it goes wrong you can never go back on it
     
  24. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    Which is why my suggestion (and, similarly jolojonasgames') are suggesting having the same services with loading screens to bridge. Not having two routes making one 125 mile route or something.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,553
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    That probably shouldn't be that much of a problem as the game always keeps only tiles around the train loaded. There's not much of a performance difference between Oakville and LGV, though one is way longer. Length should be fine, the complexity of places like München is what creates problems, but only when that tile is loaded, the route runs fine when you're in Augsburg.
    If you have routes A, B and a merger A+B, all three would probably still exist separately, merger would not destroy A and B, it would use them to create a separate entity.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  26. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    2,757
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    That would be an excellent idea to merge the routes that are linked to each other since the Next Generation consoles Xbox Series X/S & PS5 can handle them example is RRO with RSN via Hagen Hbf. However if you only previous generation console Xbox One X PS4 Pro Xbox One S Xbox One & PS4 2013 editions then you can't have the merged routes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    since when is the real world 'limited'?
     
  28. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    I meant the game . Limit it to what it can do and use those limitations to the best that they can do , not risk breaking those limitations and causing lots of bugs and crashes
     
  29. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    It wouldn't break the limits, it's essentially a shortcut which allows you to continue where you left off from route A. I don't think your realising the fact I'm not saying make it one route.
     
  30. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    I know you’re not saying to make it one route , I was just concerned about the technical limitations of UE
     
  31. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,176
    Likes Received:
    4,044
    I don't see how a little bypass of the menus will cause problems.
     
  32. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    937
    I think a physical link/merger/extension is better, but i like this idea as a fallback if they absolutely rule out the former.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  33. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes Received:
    3,530
    Hey, I started a discussion (on the PC forums, because there isn't one for all platforms) about route merging, and Matt's comments on it in the recent roadmap stream. He makes it sound like physical mergers aren't impossible, just not being looked at currently as there are some obstacles. Go check it out, because you all might be interested.
     

Share This Page