More Focus Needed On Fixing & Improving The Core Game Experience

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Apr 5, 2022.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    After watching the livestream this evening, I can't help but feel the main focus was on the current DLCs, by addressing its current issues, amongst other things.

    Whilst this is by no means a bad thing, there was very little, if any mention, of how they plan on improving the core game experience.

    Some of the issues I've experienced myself, as well as picked up from other threads are:

    Improving Sounds & Ambient sounds: I posted a detailed thread here
    Long story short, worlds inside routes still sound like ghost towns, as well as trains sounding like they are floating in mid-air, with no flange sounds or 'heaviness' to them.

    Making worlds feel less dead: An expansion to the above, we need worlds to feel 'alive'. Make NPCs walk the streets, add working construction traffic and workers to sites, add station staff to stations and lineside areas. With yards and sidings, add static rolling stock when and where applicable. Don't leave these empty if they're full in real life. These are just some improvements which can make a world of difference.

    Lighting improvements: Both day and night lighting needs to be improved. We still have the day one issue of the weird transitions between sunset and night, with it actually getting lighter after the sun has set. The terrain and assets mysteriously get brighter again. Night lighting itself needs major improvements, with significant more ambient light (not moon light) being needed to light up cities.

    Save game bug: Self explanatory really...

    2D Map improvements: It would be really, really helpful to actually have some sort of functional and decent looking map in TSW. Lack of labels are the no.1 issue with the current map.

    More customisable HUD: I'd like it if we could customise what we get to display on-screen with the HUD. Currently it seems you can only have everything or nothing. There's no customisation when it comes to what you want to have on display. Its either on or off for pretty much everything.

    Add support for dynamic weather and/or more weather toggles: It would be great if TSW supported dynamic weather, even if its something relatively simple such as clear weather to partially cloudy. Additionally, more weather toggles would be nice. Such as being able to manually adjust the amount of haze and fog a route has.

    Add support for dynamic events: Another thing which could make your driving experience a bit different to the last is if there were dynamic events. One to be careful with, so it doesn't affect the timetable too much, but perhaps 'player only' events, so it doesn't affect the AI. For example, there could be a signal failure or a last minute route diversion due to X reason, which the player gets notified via a pop-up message.

    Add support for a guard: This is something I miss from TS1, with the guard closing the doors and buzzing to you upon departure. It gives the sense that there's someone actually working at the back of your train. It also prevents us having the use the rather intrusive and immersive breaking Tab menu to operate the doors.*

    *To be used on applicable trains and services only and not on DOO operated services.

    Miscellaneous: Add support for: Neutral Sections, OLE & 3rd rail sparks. Better looking water visuals,


    I'm hoping at least some of these issues will be resolved whenever TSW's big annual update next comes out. Please share your thoughts and opinions below.
     
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  2. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with you, that's why i didn't bother watching the stream until i see changes happening but so far nothing. Maybe it will happen in the summer but who knows
     
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  3. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps these are things that be added in the future. There does need to be improvements to the core experience as well. This game can't just sit still forever
     
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  4. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    it's weird how you can drive a train one station along from starting, open the doors, and out pour like 500 passengers,

    same with stopping at a small station in the middle of nowhere at say 14:00 on a weekday, hundreds of people get off, hundreds get on,

    so the game can handle a lot of people, they just need re-purposing from passengers to other places?
     
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  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Seriously?

    The dispatcher can't even really handle things when everything runs as it's supposed to with no surprises. The dispatcher at present isn't capable of the least dynamic response- not even siding assignments (the reason for the Bakerloo timetable). You really think it can handle re-routing a train depending on a random "diversion" popping up?

    Absolutely no way to incorporate randomness into the game based on its present architecture.
     
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  6. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    Something which I mentioned previously on the TSC discord. TSW needs the core feature of an "SDO" type system where if carriages that are not within reach of the platform will not open. I find that this is something that should have been a thing from day one, seeing trains with doors open despite there not being a platform in reach just annoys me. Not just for the fact it looks wrong but also just incredibly unrealistic and illogical.
     
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  7. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    I think the save bug is part of the preserved collection, i.e. its a well-known feature from the old TSW that got brought back in TSW2.
    5 years on, the bug is still with us. DTG being consistent for once :D
     
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  8. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree with this because when I was playing Journey 11:34 Röderau Dresden Freight I got stuck on a permanent red signal at Dresden Neustadt area due to other AI services being stuck at a permanent red signal ahead of me
     
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  9. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    In relation to the guard section….. You’ve not had to use the tab key to open and close doors for a long time now. Keys Y and U open and close the left and right doors respectively without any loss of immersion.
     
  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue, at least for older British coaches and the US M3/M7, is that the driver shouldn't be doing it at all.
     
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  11. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    I know I was just pointing out the inaccuracy about having to use the tab key method.
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a dead end that DTG have programmed themselves into. Dynamic timetables should be relatively easy to do, certainly anyone with knowledge of excel or database programming can figure it out "off game", but the way the timetable making video puts it seems to make it much much more difficult.
    What we think of as "random surprises" could actually be decided at load time, with the timetable built at that point. The dispatcher would only need to direct traffic based on that freshly minted timetable
     
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  13. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I think this should come hand in hand with the core being sturdier. In an ideal world core should carry most of the content and changes to it should improve all routes across the board instead of breaking them. There are many new features that are then sprayed over old routes. Some have them, some have a couple of them, and some have none. It is a mess. And we're close to getting a bunch of new features (new radial blur, new particle effects for smoke) with SoS. And I bet it will take years for old content to be upgraded with these.
     
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  14. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Save game and improved 2D maps isn't a priority for me TBH but I agree with everyother point raised. The NPC guards (where appropriate) would be a game changer in terms of immersion.
     
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  15. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    These are very high on my list. I have this very much with the Harlem Line. A lot of NY natives have tried to convince me the route is very realistic but I really can't get my head around why the little city I live sounds and feels more alive than NY.
     
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well as a person who lives in New York City, I can say that the route has many inaccuracies and lacks the hustle and bustle on the streets. Those "New York Natives" probably don't live in the city
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As a person who lives in Gillingham on the SEHS I can say that there are many inaccuracies and it lacks the hustle and bustle on the streets...
    It's a train simulator not a city simulator. The platforms should be appropriately busy or quiet, the streets are a bonus
     
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But at least the ambient sound of all those people and all that traffic should be there: it's an integral part of the Manhattan atmosphere. The Harlem route appears to have all the acoustic bustle of Bishop's Stortford.
     
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  19. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Not an excuse. There should at least be ambient sounds of people on the streets. Stations are often quiet when in reality in Manhattan they are not. There should also be traffic along park ave if dtg wanted to capture the hustle and bustle of Manhattan. New York City is not a small town
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2022
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  20. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Dynamic events and guards are a good idea but I don’t think they’ll come over this quiet period Matt referred to on the stream.

    I’d be happy enough if DTG just iron out current bugs and did a bit of optimisation to help the game run smoother.

    One thing I will say is, features that are introduced in a route should be implemented into the following route. DRA’s excellent night lighting for example, should’ve been in London Commuter.
     
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. DTG need to get what they have sorted before they add more complexity. Steam and the 1950s era already present plenty of new challenges.
     
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  22. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Good points all, my opininion would. Be that we need :

    - dynamic weather, come on even in UK you dont have heavy rainfalls during 70 kms dont you ?

    - more life evry where : AI trains, People, cars and so on. Maybe some would be randomized not appearing each time (like railfans, works on a Building, on a Road)

    - light... Well in my opinion in TSW its one of the worst implantion in a game i have seen. The task seems enormous but the benefit in term of game mplay would be great. Personally i avoid night as much as i can actually. And even days are often too bizarre (shadows...) lightining..., eye adaptation not working as well as it should...

    Problem with all this stuff is if i understand well, its not only a core problem, its a global problem of each route. And more route will be out more this tasks will be difficulté. I even fear that for lights there is no real hope, part for some bugfixing.

    As for random évents on tracks, While in theory its an excellent idea, i find it would be à mess to make it work without breaking things that already works...

    More i think about it, more i arrive to conclusion that TSW engine is not solid enough to have too many hopes.
     
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  23. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

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    While on the topic of customizable HUD, more freedom in graphic settings would also be nice, it’s been debated before too. And great wish list summary btw.
     
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  24. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Can I add one thought of a thing?

    When on explore on foot mode. The ability to port from station to station without having to go back to the menu, go back thru the whole settings palaver and reload?

    Or is that just me being lazy?
     
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  25. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Also regarding those who want dynamic events.

    London Commuter is all we need to know about dynamic events, too many variables lead to red lights and a unplayable game?
     
  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Whilst new features would be nice, I fear introducing new features may just break other parts of the game.
     
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  27. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    it's great they gave us door opening keyboard shortcuts, Y for left, U for right, but why couldn't they have given us a 'close all doors' command on the keyboard.

    you can do it with the mouse, and i believe on the raildriver some trains have that as a button... so you get 'open left' 'open right' and 'close all'
    would mean no more rushing as your about to be late leaving and pressing 'open right' when you meant to press 'close left'

    Of course i want access to every switch and button and lever in the trains that can be operated by mouse atm, and to be able to at the very least assign keyboard commands to them.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I mean you can just walk from station to station on foot by walking next to the tracks or catch a train and take it to the next station
     
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  29. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Some stations and destinations are frequented by fewer trains than others!

    But I get your point!
     
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  30. Felix Costa

    Felix Costa New Member

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    I'd like to see new features as dynamic events in timetable mode too but DTG should fix bugs already in the game first.
    TSW is a great game /simulator in my opinion but things like AI stuck is annoying for me.
    A feature that I like very much is doing continous play. But this is almost impossible without get AI trains stuck at green signals or not moving for no reason.

    Take a service on BML that is playable until east croydon or selhurst for exemple, most of the times the AI doesn't move de train after I finished the service.
     
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  31. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I agree with so many things here I really hope DTG can take this on board. I'm still amazed we are still living with bugs from the core update and Rush Hour.

    Dynamic events or even a decent career mode would transform TSW2 but honestly I don't see DTG capable of that, sad cause it would be awesome. I think we at best can hope for is that one day DTG sort out the most inane scoring system ever.

    One thing that does bug me is the lighting at stations. They just are so dark. You go to a town/city station in reality and they are lit up like beacons you go to the ones in game and it is like they are using candles.


    What about the consoles or even if you just want to use the controller on PC. Instead of using two keys to do separate doors why not have one key to do both?
     
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  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    That's why it would need to be accompanied by a "break the glass" feature which allows you to delete trains causing a standoff or as a last resort to pass a signal at danger if you have checked the section ahead is clear and the next signal is showing proceed.
     
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  33. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    The game has a big "issue" related to passengers and people on the trains and stations!.

    I mean you drive trains with no passengers at all, or just very few ones.
    You start a timetable with a train stopped on a big terminal station, and of course your are requested to open the doors.
    But surprisingly lot of people left the train! Being the departure station.

    Furthermore the new "rush hour" feature for other routes is nice. But the behavior of them is not the expected. It is strange.
    There are stations with lot of them, others with just few, but this is not related to the station size.

    Of course between other main big issues, that were already mentioned above.
     
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  34. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I live 10miles from the office, quite often it can rain all day at the office and at home have had no rain.
     
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  35. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Now, during April, we have A LOT of variation in the weather, something we call 'April Showers'. Quite literally it can be clear blue skies and 10 minutes later it can be pouring down with rain from a passing shower. All very localised, too. So the weather can be very changeable and unpredicted at this time of the year here.
     
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  36. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    We get that here and cause we live in a valley distances are even shorter, 6-7 miles. We've had Sun, Rain and snow in the last few weeks (S. Oxon) and I love it personally.
     
  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of rain, why on some routes can you still hear the rain sound in tunnels? Just come off a runon Rhein Ruhr Osten and both tunnels have this glitch.

    Also, it's 05.00 in the morning, lashing down cats and dogs yet passengers are still strolling around the platforms in shirtsleeves for the men, blouse and short skirt for the women. Not a raincoat, parka or umbrella in sight!
     
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  38. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I forget who but someone did a youtube video and said the physics of rain on the side windows is just wrong. I think he said you see dots of rain where in fact they should be long streaks. I can't remember if it was the uncharted series or another PS game but the rain in that was brilliant, or was it Heavy Rain, lol.
     
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  39. The_Drunken_Engineer

    The_Drunken_Engineer Active Member

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    Nope, great idea.
     
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  40. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    an out of context quote:
    I think that there is the problem with all of TSW2 ??

    Trying to make this sim multi platform and having to limit functions on the PC version because they won't work on the consoles.



    i know the people who have only ever played TSW2 on consoles will hate me for this view, i know for the price of a PS5 /xbox you can't get anywhere near a good enough PC to play TSW2 in 4k resolution.

    and i do have both the PS5 and PC versions of TSW2,
    but i soon realised i get a much better experience using the PC version.
     
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  41. The_Drunken_Engineer

    The_Drunken_Engineer Active Member

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    You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, trainfren, but I'd just like to give my appreciation to DTG for bringing this game to the older generation consoles. PS4 users are greatly lacking in choice for good simulation games and I know in some ways it makes things more difficult for everyone else. I'm sure monetary consideration was factored in but I'm still happy they did so! Thanks DTG!
     
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  42. Mikeboy

    Mikeboy Active Member

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    Agree with most of these and would also add prioritising the backporting of radial blur.
     
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  43. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I mean they have already the objective sounds when a task has finished. For the guards function "on", they can change it to a buzzer. So when the a.i guard closes the doors, the player can even drive no hud.
     
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  44. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Why would I buy a PC to play one game? Most of the games on PC are a mess compared to the console versions. It just doesn't make sense to add an extra cost for hardware on top of the cost of the game you already owned just to make it run a bit better. It's not like TSW2 is this must have game that runs smooth and without problems but only on PC. As this topic in the PC forums raises lots of the concerns I share it looks like I'm not getting the version I would want by buying a PC.

    I don't have a PC at home and I will never get one ever again. I used to have one and the experience of playing games on a PC was 1000 time worse than the TSW2 experience on consoles. TSW2 is kinda unique on consoles that it is one of the only games I own that keeps breaking, it's also the only game I own that has no force feedback which is very odd on consoles. TSW2 is rather an ugly duck on consoles. Don't blame consoles for this game being broken.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2022
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  45. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Ah the real fun playing PC games was when we were using MS-DOS. Each game needed a different config.sys and autoexec.bat . Tornado would not run off the boot disc for Wing Commander. EF2000 would not run on the config/autoexec for US Navy Fighters! Often spent more time working out how to allocate memory and the order to load system resources. Eventually you graduated to discs or even on the HD with multiple choice at boot up for the option you wanted. All so much easier now!
     
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  46. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Because there is games that will absolutly never be avaiable on any console.
    Simulations, strategy, not evryone is interested in Fifa and likes ... The pc gaming may be a mess when they try to port a console game to a pc with no care but when developed directly for pc player its quite différent.

    About TSW, i think that making it compatible hindred development, time for bug fixing and so on. Still im very happy that console player may access train simulation.
     
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  47. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    The same goes for PC. Some console exclusives will never come to PC. And some PC ports to console are horrible because they were not developed for consoles. Indeed compatibility probably hindered development and as consoles was where they wanted to be with TSW2 it's clear who's to blame. The PC version is being build with Playstation money ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2022
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  48. apophis55

    apophis55 Active Member

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    As a proud resident myself of Antwerp, i feel the need to point out that Antwerp is superior in every way to New York...
     
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  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha very funny. New York City will always reign supreme ;)
     
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  50. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    That's just what i mean... if you've never played TSW2 on a PC, you have no idea that there are differences,

    i must be weird, as i have multiple desktop PC's that only have one thing loaded on them,
    one has only Omsi2.. and the only inputs are the bus steering wheel, dashboard, ticket machine etc.
    One only has only TS20xx and TSW2 on it, connected to the train driving controllers i am making.
    Another runs only MAME (so joysticks and buttons as inputs)
    The PS4 and 5 are for playing games like hitman, deus ex, metro (the post russian nuclear war game, not a metro driving sim)
    My laptop does everything else from modeling for 3D printing, arduino programming, web browsing / moaning on forums ... and i will sometimes play the train sims on it too.



    I got the PC version of TSW2 for a few reasons,

    I found out most routes have a lot more timetables plus other lines to drive compared to the console version,

    Ability to change a lot more settings, like playing with the graphics settings and engine.ini, i was able to get rid of the texture pop thing and track thats comes into focus ~10 meters Infront of the train as you are driving, you're stuck with that on the consoles.

    At least there's a chance the PC versions will one day have full joystick support... right now i can use my raildriver with it, and the train levers i am making with a workaround,
    that's impossible on the consoles as they won't even recognise a raildriver if you plug one in, and you don't have the menu setting to calibrate it etc.

    Steam sales are always on it seems, so i buy very little at full price, at least i dont have the xbox that almost never has sales tho.



    Not sure if it's true, but the sound issues were at one time being blamed on the limited number of sound channels some consoles have, hence we're limited to 32 sounds playing at once on the PC when it can handle at least double that if not more.

    That's fine for a fighting game, but way too few for a train simulator,
    some said it's an unreal engine limitation, but i've seen people programming pc games with 64 sound channels in use in unreal 4,

    and since i added the "AudioQualityLevel=0" line in the 'engine.ini' file (4 is lower number of sounds, 0 is max) i am sure i am hearing more sounds in the PC versions than i do in the PS5 version,
    the PS5 BR112 has a horrible flange squeal.. a repeating short squeak, it sounds much better in the PC version with a long squeeeaaaalllll... but only if you open the cab windows or change cameras to outside the train.. we still have the major problem of attenuated sounds in the cab.


    BUT at the end of the day, i should be happy TSW2 is even on the PC, wasn't it designed to be a console game from the beginning?

    They saw a market that's missing and went for it, i.e no other train sims on consoles AFAIK... maybe because a fighting controller is a very bad train controller, so it has to be used like a keyboard... tap this button to accelerate, tap this one to brake etc. but there's not enough buttons to operate all the controls,
    on the PS5 with no mouse support it's no fun using the sticks to point and click say buttons around the MFA screens.
     
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