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New Adhesion Physics - Or Not...

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by hightower, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    I’ve just added this to my bug list thread (https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/a-slice-of-humble-pie-and-some-feedback.26268/) but wondered if anyone else is finding the same thing...

    New Adhesion physics are very questionable. A Talent 2 scenario in moderate rain (Journey Chapter 1), in the summer and the thing is slipping and sliding all over the place. Talent 2 service in Autumn at night in heavy rain (Journey, Chapter 4 first service) and I slammed the throttle open from a standing start out of interest and there was no wheelslip at all. Same under braking - it would stop on a sixpence with no slipping. I’m not convinced these are proper adhesion physics again but just another fudge. Whatever they are, it’s clearly not working as it should.

    Is it a one off or is it not working as advertised?

     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
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  2. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    To be fair I haven't done enough proper testing with different weather since the last couple of runs I made I just followed the journey.
    I'll come back when I've tested enough to have an opinion on this issue
     
  3. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Cool. It’s a genuine question, not trying to rant at DTG and say they’re kidding us on. If it was really as comprehensive as it’s supposed to be, I’d have thought full throttle from a standing start at night, in heavy rain in Autumn would have produced something.
     
  4. tbaac

    tbaac Member

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    On HRR in the BR 425 in the Snow Time scenario, it was very slippy and braking in particular was difficult, although I found that I got a lot of wheelslip on acceleration as well. I don't know how realistic it was and whether or not the effect was overdone. For me, it just made it a bit more of a challenge, which was fine.
     
  5. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Thats cool. Scenarios seem to be fine. Have you tried a service? I’m getting totally different characteristics dependant on whichever I’m playing. I know the train weights might be different but they won’t be that different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2020
  6. tbaac

    tbaac Member

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    Ah okay. I haven't tried services in bad weather yet as far as I recall. I'll look out for it though.
     
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  7. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Thanks :)
     
  8. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    I've experienced it several times when running in snow and found it challenging, a great improvement, and great fun learning how to manage -- but I have no experience on which to judge the validity of the physics and all I can do is hope they got it right. Hats off to those of you sufficiently knowledgeable to suspect and ferret out an inadequacy.
     
  9. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Active Member

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    Running the Talent 2 on Koln-Aachen, I've inadvertently missed a PZB acknowledge and, on a fairly straight (i.e., slight curve) section of track, the emergency brake application in rainy weather has (on two separate occasions) caused the train to derail and the scenario to end. I'm not an expert on German train safety systems by any means, but I can't imagine that derailing the train is a great safety feature. So I think the adhesion system still needs a little bit of work.
     
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  10. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    I like how the HUD has a wheel slip indicator.

    I can't speak to how accurately variable adhesion is modeled, but I think it's a good reminder that we have to drive more carefully when the tracks are wet.

    Yes, I also derailed because I had been going too fast on a rainy day. But that's not the fault of the adhesion system when I tried to slow down too abruptly.
     
  11. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve tried (and tried a lot) to get a heavy manifest train in sand patch grade moving in heavy rain, and the results were, very slippery! Wheel slip no matter what I do, I can’t get the train moving! I’ve tried the sand feature and that doesn’t seem to work, I’m just slippin and slidin all over the place! I haven’t derailed yet, just the train is stopped with the wheels slipping. So, for me, I don’t think I don’t have wheelslip, oh it’s there alright, but for me it’s overpowered!
     
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  12. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve also tried an ICE service in a blizzard, and I only had wheel slip when on max power, no matter the speed, but I was easily able to go at 155 mph with snow on the tracks at 70% power, so I guess there’s SO MUCH wheelslip in SPG, but hardly any on Köln?
     
  13. Rush

    Rush Member

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    You made sure all your locos were setup for properly for MU/Banking operation? I went through all 3 chapters in journey mode without a single instance of wheel slip in rain/snow which include some of the manifest services.
    There are certainly a few services that are literally just underpowered though and won’t make it up to the summit because it’ll be a 50 car train with only 2 SD40-2’s pulling and no helper at the rear and that’s in even clear weather conditions.
     
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  14. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Well that is certainly odd, I thought all locos were set up for MU operation already, shouldn’t they already be? I saw exhaust coming from the rear AC4400CW so I believe they already were. In TSW 2020 they were, so why not TSW 2?
     
  15. Rush

    Rush Member

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    Nope, I always had to go through each loco at the start to make sure. There are many services where they’d be setup differently from a previous services, but both would be incorrect. Then you always need to turn the Banking Comm on since that usually isn’t on by default either.
     
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  16. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    This thread has got me wondering if the preserved routes collection has the new adhesion. I'm getting some mixed messaging where some marketing material says they do, but then I've read other comments saying they don't (otherwise why would they market it as Preserved Collection instead of just a TSW2 DLC if adhesion was fully present). What even is partial adhesion anyways if only some elements of it are simulated. Does anyone know?
     
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  17. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    All they mean is that they've updated the old stock to work with the new adhesion physics of TSW2 without bugging out, but they don't actually feature any wheelslip. One hypothetical example is that without updating the adhesion physics of the old DLC, the trains might just have endless wheelslip so they would have had to fix that by adjusting for the new adhesion system. However, they have not implemented variable adhesion, so you should not be expecting any wheelslip physics.
     
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  18. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    If we were on the Millionaire TV show this would not be the question to ask the public.
    The subject is complex and the factors that determine the loss of grip are many and also change from train to train and again from locomotive to locomotive. As a "layman" to me the general result seems good, without a doubt it can be improved but it is still good.
     
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  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I slid with the BR 425.
     
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  20. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, thanks for the info, I’ll have to start checking for that when I reattempt driving that manifest train!:)
     
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