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North Wales Coastal?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Scottish Train Girl, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    I have recently noticed the North Wales Coastal route has been withdrawn from the steam store along side the virgin class 390 and Virgin first generation pack. Unfortunately I was not able to purchase these in time so I would like to ask if there is any chance of one day the North Wales Coastal route especially being made available again at some point in the future? Thanks.
     
  2. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    Only DTG can answer that. :)
     
  3. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    Thanks trev123, well im hoping one of the DTG guys reads this and is able to reply as I asked this question for a couple of reasons:

    1) There are some third party expansion packs and routes which I really would love to add to my ever growing collection that require the North Wales Coastal and also the North Wales Coastal extension and,

    2) My OCD, as without the pair of the North Wales Coastal I will not be able to complete my UK collection, I know it may sound daft but thats how I am.

    Appreciate your reply :) Now if DTG can give us any response at all it would be greatly appreciated :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  4. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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  5. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    Thanks BigMountain555 interesting reading. I wonder if they simply could remove the Virgin branding if that's the actual case and just use unbranded trains instead. Was watching a video of Euston just a few days ago and the Pendolinos where totally grey no branding or livery whatsoever. Surely if the Virgin Branding is the issue DTG could relaunch the route with non livery or unbranded trains where necessary? Just a thought.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  6. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

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    I made such a comment before with removal of branding, but the comment was that if DTG removes branding, it will remove it for everyone including people who have the pack now, they will loose the branding too if they update the route which would upset people who bought it before, so they won't do that (as I would be upset to lose branding).

    Relaunching the route would mean that there are 2 of the same routes available, incompatible because of IDs with Workshop items or 3rd party created scenario's. With people asking 'I do have the route, but it is not showing the scenario' or 'I have missing rolling stock'.

    It is the same for older BNSF content, otherwise it would have been done already (these day's, the branding is seperate, so a US/Non-US package can be made).

    So for now the routes are unavailable and it is a possibility that they will never return or at least for a long time.
    Maybe there are still key's available from sites such as Humble Bundle or other sites, but be careful where you buy.
     
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  7. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    Thankyou Rob Jansen for your comment. What a blasted shame and I hope eventually they will decide to re release it one day. Unfortunately I was late to the party as didn't have a pc good enough to run Train Simulator decently enough until a couple of months ago so I missed out on the opportunity to acquire it and the extension . I have already spent a small fortune on dlc and purchasing every few weeks without fail. I had put this one and the extension on my wishlist but the route vanished from it. Oh well thankyou everyone. Appreciate your replies. I must say this is one of the nicer and helpful online communities I have joined.
     
  8. doc_woods

    doc_woods Active Member

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    You can definitely get a key for NWC as part of the Train Simulator 2018 package, which is still available from Humble Bundle (alongside a few other places). Or you could find a new boxed copy of the TS2018 package (be careful because a used boxed copy won't activate so is useless). You can also still get the Virgin Trains First Generation Locos from Humble Bundle. I don't believe that the extension was ever sold anywhere but Steam, so you can't get that.

    Be aware that there's reputable and disreputable third party stores so be a bit careful (Humble Bundle is reputable though). Isthereanydeal.com is a useful site that'll list what sites sell what.

    ----------------------

    As an aside - the old yearly packages are a good way of getting content fairly cheaply so are definitely worth your while looking at.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  9. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Try looking on ebay and Amazon for Train Simulator 2018 but check it is new.

    Peter
     
  10. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    Wow guys thankyou this is really nice of you all to reply. Im only currently familiar with Steam and im cautious about buying keys etc from non steam sources. Could someone please explain how we are with TS2020 being the current version but some sources are still selling TS2018? doc_woods i have just checked Humble bundle seems it is still available. Instead of buying another truck load of dlc as I usually do at the end of every month on steam i might risk trying for it. Another thing that’s worrying me is i hope it won’t mess up my TS2020 installation in any way.

    Thanks again and appreciate it

    Stephanie
     
  11. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    Now as they have taken these routes down for sale would the keys work and if they did so would you get the routes. I would be suspicious about this.
     
  12. doc_woods

    doc_woods Active Member

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    I don't know for certain because I bought my copy before they were taken down. However, I don't see why they wouldn't work. I'd also be pretty sure that you could get a refund from the store if it didn't work (although obviously having to chase refunds is no-one's idea of fun). Personally I wouldn't be worried but it isn't my money on the line....

    The gist is that the yearly packages are really only collections of the base game and (usually) 3 routes. The base game gets updated for free each year (so if you bought it in 2018 and never bought anything else the menu would currently say "2020", but you'd only have the 2018 routes). When you activate them on Steam you just get the routes, because you already own "TS base game". I, and many other people here, have bought these old packages and it doesn't cause any problems.

    I don't know the commercial arrangement for why they're still sold. It could be that the stores bought a bulk order of keys when it was new and will continue selling it until they're gone. It could also be that DTG continues to sell these keys to various stores. From the point-of-view of a customer I don't think it really matters.

    -----------

    One further hint while I'm here: the 2019 and 2017 packages are currently pretty cheap (£6.15 each) on uk.gamersgate.com. If you're interested in the routes those have then they might be worth a look. That said, these old packages do go on sale fairly frequently so you'll almost certainly see them at a similar price again within the next few months.
     
  13. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    Thanks for the advice and tips doc_woods, I definitely will be checking those yearly deals and see if they are worth getting as in just a couple of months since getting the game I already almost have about 75% of the Uk routes lol. Im trying to catch up on all the years i missed.

    With regards to the Humble Bundle deal, I have looked at it again but I am a little skeptical as they are asking the same price as the current version TS2020. Unless there is actually a way of knowing if its the real deal and the NWC would actually work I doubt im going to risk it. Ill keep an eye on here and on Dovatails Facebook page as who knows maybe one day in the future it might just become available again.

    Thanks anyways I do really appreciate your replies and comments.

    Stephanie
     
  14. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    It is possible to share content with friends in Steam. I'm not sure this is what it's for but, if you know someone who does have the Virgin content, it should be quite legitimate for you buddy up with them and use it yourself.
     
  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if that applies to single player games?
     
  16. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

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    You can't share any Train Sim content with other people. I think you refer to 'Play Together'?
    This title isn't enabled for dual-play, as it requires a local player co-op to function.
     
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  17. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  18. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Shame you do not have a chance for the extension to Holyhead as it does not appear on the Instant Gaming site.

    Peter
     
  19. Scottish Train Girl

    Scottish Train Girl Member

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    I have searched all over the internet to purchase the holyhead extension unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be available from anywhere. If there is a way to purchase it, i would love to know from where.

    Stephanie
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  20. AndyJR81

    AndyJR81 New Member

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    Hi Stephanie

    I was in the same boat and have found luck - TS2018 is currently on sale on Humble Bundle for £8.74 (for another 9 days!) and includes the route from Crewe up to Llandudno. I'm made up!

    Andy
     
  21. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    If you ever find it please let me know, I, like yourself, was late to the party with the Welsh content, thank goodness I got the Welsh Marches before they withdrew that too.
     
  22. domisnotamused

    domisnotamused New Member

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    I had this problem too. Unfortunately I haven't found a way of getting the Class 390 or the Virgin First Generation packs however, in terms of the North Wales Coastal, you can find Steam Keys for Train Simulator 2018 for sale on eBay. I've just bought one. This includes the shorter version of the North Wales Coastal route as well as the Virgin liveried Class 221
     
  23. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    I confirm the Holyhead extension is gone. That indeed is a blasted shame. I have looked for it as I found a NWC 2018 key. Also get a 2017 key for South Wales Coastal, but the Swansea expansion no longer exists; SteamDB has even shown that the DLC for the original route is now named "South Wales Coastal Asset Pack"..
     
  24. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    South Wales Coastal = Withdrawn (but still available if you can buy TS2017)
    North Wales Coastal = Withdrawn (but still available if you can buy TS2018)
    North Wales Extension = Withdrawn (currently unable to get a Steam key anywhere)
    Swansea Expansion = Withdrawn (currently unable to get a Steam key anywhere)
    Welsh Marches = Withdrawn (currently unable to get a Steam key anywhere)
    Virgin Trains First Gen Pack = Withdrawn (currently unable to get a Steam key anywhere)

    Not sure if I've missed anything but this is the current sad state of affairs regarding these former Virgin Trains and Arriva Trains Wales branded DLC's.
     
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  25. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    They could re-release the DLC and make it a pack available for purchase without the branded trains and put everything in the same locations, yes. That way, they can use the same scenarios and reference the unbranded models instead. There may be reasons they can't do that, but I think that would be a possible fix. I mean, Pennsylvania Steam supposedly acts the same as Bessemer & Lake Erie's paid version and is compatible with workshop content, so why not?
     
  26. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference to what the Developers will do and what DTG can do.

    Great Northerner released the Montana Hi-Line with for the US with locos that have BNSF Logos and they also released another version with locos that did not have logos for sale outside the US.
    DTG won't do that - If they can not get a License from a company they are not going to release something with plain colours.

    Peter
     
  27. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    And this is a good point. The BNSF examples were done, I think, before the loss of worldwide license, and I don't think they've done BNSF since, but those who have have accounted for the difference in licensing and made different versions because they care about having all customers able to buy the route (it makes financial sense to have as many people able to buy as possible). So again, since Marias Pass was done in what, 2013, they could not predict the license for worldwide would vanish two years later and they don't want to modify the old route now. The shame in this is that it's extremely widely used and a lot of people are unable to explore a lot of American-themed workshop routes because of it. Some user collections extensively use BNSF content. So it's too bad an alternative is not available.
     
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  28. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    If like me you do not have North Wales Coast route (now unavailable), I just got around this by purchasing TS2018 from here.... https://www.instant-gaming.com for £7.I can confirm that this works. I uninstalled TS2020 from Steam... hosed the folder.. added a new game, typed in my purchase code... it installed TS2018... Steam then updated it to 2020... and I now have North Wales Coast.
     
  29. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Did you need to uninstall TS2020??
     
  30. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I asked the question in today's stream about releasing unbranded DLC'S. Matt's reply was that it would create issues for those who already have the branded content.

    So I took it to mean, releasing an updated and unbranded pack would remove the branding for everyone regardless.
     
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  31. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    No just install it, it adds the DLC's but keeps the latest game engine, TS2020
     
  32. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    You do not need to uninstall 2020. I added both 2019 and 2018 on top of it. Heck, SteamDB shows the packages to contain 2020, and they will someday have 2021, etc.
     
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  33. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Which is probably why G-Trax never re-relased Penn Steam back onto steam, as it would cause issues with the original owners of the Bessimer & Lake Erie Route.
     
  34. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Same with Maine Maritime, but that one also did a train swap from Portland Terminal.
     
  35. Reef

    Reef Active Member

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    A real lazy response from DTG there, of course it would break EXISTING scenarios but surely the route and content is more than scenarios alone, I would sooner have the route with no legacy scenarios than the abundance of legacy scenarios and no route, wouldn't you?
     
  36. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    There was no mention of scenarios. The understanding I took from the response was that by re releasing the route without branded locos and rolling stock would mean that no one would have the branding including those in the countries where it is still available. I suppose that could then cause further issues with the companies wanting to know why their branding had been removed entirely.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  37. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Wonder why a patch couldn't be made similar to how the Chicago Racetrack was sold, where customers in the US would get the BNSF logos in a separate DLC (Which added the logos onto the DLC and applicable buildings) Granted, this would mean redoing every single Building and Rolling stock for this purpose. (Which would be a time consuming process for Dovetail with Marias Pass, not to mention DTG doesn't like selling unbranded content)
    aaa.png
     
  38. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    OK, let me answer this cleanly.

    1. Create a new DLC item. This DLC item is the special branded train that cannot be given out, or cannot be distributed globally (I'm looking at you, BNSF).
    2. Find all current owners of the route.
    3. Give all current owners of the route that extra DLC item. This way, they maintain ownership of the branded train. I recommend moving it to a new location (I'll explain why shortly).
    4. Take the existing DLC, and replace the existing branded train in that copy with another branded train that can legally be used (not even anything unbranded, just something else that can replace it so you're not using unbranded locos).
    5. Restore the route to the world and make money. Regional customers can buy the version that includes the branded train, or in the case of a train that can no longer be sold (hi Virgin!), it remains unavailable but those previous buyers, having received it automatically, retain it while new buyers cannot attain it.

    Why do I suggest this method? By moving the branded train to a new location and putting something in its place, you can then have the special package give a bonus train (in the case of BNSF, that's what this would be, while for others it's a replacement), and this bonus train will take the place of the other train in any workshop scenarios. Of course, there is the possibility that changing the livery may affect things, so the livery can also be left alone. This would require instead adding the new livery, replacing it in all scenarios on the route, testing to make sure THEY STILL WORK CORRECTLY, and then removing the old livery from the route (still making it a separate item at the existing file location). That would retain all existing workshop scenarios work, but new ones that are made with the removed train will not operate for new buyers. That is where it gets messy and why I recommend moving the unavailable train to a new file location. The replacement would have to be virtually identical except for its paint.

    I think this would solve all of the problems. Of course, I'm not a coder of the game, merely a student of logic. This would have to be properly tested to make sure it works as intended, but I think it's worth testing so that we can get Marias Pass, North Wales Coastal and its extension, and others back out into the marketplace.

    There is one final option. Sell rights to the route and anything in them to another company to re-release as they see fit. That way, DTG is not accountable for anything that happens to it, and we can eventually get the exact route ID back. Of course, this may not always be the case, so it would be better to do something with it rather than sell it off.

    Also, this does not assume other rolling stock. Doing it for multiple stock CAN be time-consuming, as the previous post states. But I'm just noting it CAN be done. And for routes used heavily in the workshop, isn't it WORTH it?
     
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  39. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't think it was that big of a job to do really.

    Just from my limited knowledge of TS1, it's simple to clone a route in game, it takes seconds. Then, using TS Tools you can exchange locos and rolling stock in a few mouse clicks. With my limited knowledge of TS Tools, a bit of Googling and some YouTube tutorials, I reckon I could swap out all the locos and rolling stock in an hour or two maximum.

    I'm sure the developers will have something similar and be far more efficient at it. However it boils down to how many units would they likely sell against the time / cost of doing it.

    Realistically how many Europeans want redundant US routes. Those who most likely want them, live in the US can still buy them.

    The North and South Wales routes however, I personally think quite a few people would buy those, and unlike the BNSF stuff, they're no longer available to anyone.
     
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  40. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I was just being cautious. It just updates it back to 2020, yes, but without any confirmation, I just did to be certain. However, I just thought I'd give another confirmation that installing 2018 fixes the issue,and that you can get it fro £7.

    s
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  41. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Marias Pass is definitely NOT a redundant route. It's the second most-used route in the workshop. I don't have stats for Stevens Pass.
     
  42. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I meant redundant as in no longer available in Train Simulator. Not that it is no longer used in real life.
     
  43. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    The route is still available in Train Simulator and still heavily used. Just not available worldwide.
     
  44. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I stand corrected.

    It is a heavily used route that is still available for Train Simulator. Due to licensing issues, it is not on general sale in the UK from Steam or DTG, but can be still purchased in the US.
     
  45. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I did... but I've learned since that it was not necessary.
     
  46. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Just as an aside, I've also just bought a CD key for TS2017 to get the South Wales DLC as well from CDKeys.com
     
  47. m1sterc

    m1sterc New Member

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    Instant-gaming.com has ts2018 with the north wales coastal route and the virgin branding. I purchased it a week ago with no issues with the steam key if anyone needs it..
     
  48. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    You sure? Just had a look... can't see anything. You got a link?
     
  49. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  50. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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