Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

Hats off to you for dealing with manual lap brakes. * Salute Emoji *

 

It wasn't my intent to strike a nerve, I did my best to make that clear.
I'm aware that JoeSchmoe123 (made up name AFAIK, if JoeSchmoe123 exists, I apologize) with 5 subscribers probably isn't trying to sell anything.

I'm referring to some for lack of a better term "influencers" who uploaded streams / premiered videos around the launch day.
A good deal of them were unfamiliar with the route and how to operate the trains.
When it comes to business, let's use celebrities for example. Nike would give Brad Pitt their latest shoe because they know people would buy it if they saw Brad Pitt wearing it. Brad might not actively be "selling" the shoe, but his celebrity has influence.
I've bought a few things (in my childhood especially) because a famous person I liked "embraced" it and looked cool with it.

Obviously not on the same scale, and a different industry altogether, but the principle applies.
This DLC had a LARGE demand for it, especially before it released.
Therefore many were eager to watch those who had it early, so we can see how it plays, looks, etc.
Speaking for myself, it wasn't all too fun to watch many struggle with the controls and lack knowledge of the routes.
Again, no one (including me) knows EVERYTHING, or needs to for that matter.
But it seemed a number barely knew anything about the route.
Do I take issue with those "influencers"? No. Again, this isn't an attack. Just constructive criticism.
At the end of the day, it's ONLY a video game.

Everyone is allowed to play the game and enjoy it as they see fit. I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade.
My point was "influencers" have, well, a good deal of influence on how prospective buyers see the game. There's a value exchange.
JoeSchmoe123's likelihood of influencing anyone to buy the game is low. Joe's reach is abysmal compared to larger channels.
Again, sorry if JoeSchmoe123 actually exists. Joe could be an expert for all I know.

Once again, my intent was to provide constructive feedback. Not attack anyone or tear anyone down.
Especially for over how they play a video game, like come on.
That's lame and frankly I have far more productive things to do with my time than that.

I love this stretch of the NEC & I enjoy finally having the opportunity to play this without having a gaming PC (shoutout to my Xbox).
But I'm not, nor will I ever get so caught up in it that I lose sight of reality. It's just a video game.

Take care & be good my people. *rings bell & sounds horn in a short-short formation*

 

Ah! I didn't know about sounding the horn on tracks 2 & 3. In my experience as a mere passenger, it seems most engineers use the horn at their discretion if their train isn't on a track that platforms. I know about one long blast (at least it seems) if a train is approaching a station on a track with a platform. Sometimes engineers do long-long-short-long if they're on say 3 and they're passing a stopped train at a station on 4.

Thanks for sharing that.

 

For the Amtrak NEC, Operating Rules require a single Long blast of the horn approaching, but not stopping at, station platforms on an adjacent track during daylight hours. At night this is only required when people are seen on the platform. These two rules only apply on tracks adjacent to the station platform, it is not required on an inner track where there is a track between your train and the platform.

Operating Rules also require a Long Long Short Long when passing a stopped train on an adjacent track. This does not apply if there is a track between your train and the other train.

In addition, these horn signals are not required in New York Penn Station.

 

This is why the rule exists

https://www.quora.com/What-went-wrong-with-Bobby-Kennedys-funeral-train-in-Elizabeth-NJ

After this the state made the law that all trains in nj must blast one long before going through a station regardless of track

 

It’s a jersey only thing no other state and it applies to any track this is why you’ll hear Acela blast horns when running through metropark

 

Another good story about it https://sfbaytimes.com/untold-story-robert-kennedy-funeral-train/

 

No problem at all. EVERYONE (including me) starts somewhere.
Manual lap brakes are like Algebra 2 (for me) not ideal, but I can make them work.
With that being said, here are two of my favorite YouTube channels with a good deal of content around this topic (albeit not exclusively on it).

1. https://www.youtube.com/@PositionLight (great for interlockings)
   
2. https://www.youtube.com/@3985uprr/ (now THIS man is a living & breathing walking railroad encyclopedia)

Neither of these guys know I exist, nor do they need to.
I'm just a fan of them and I figured it would be cool to share their content because I think many could draw value from it.

 

Ah! (I'm sounding like The Count from Sesame Street now )
Interesting, although my parents didn't meet yet during the unfortunate RFK incident, I heard of it during my own digging of NEC history.
I didn't know that was the reason for sounding the horn. I never knew what it was.

Thanks again for sharing.

 

I operate a model railroad with someone who was there. Yes he’s very old. I also operate with the head of opsig. They tell the story often

 

Thanks for the insight. The night time rule seems like a bit of a grey area.
Say if an engineer is passing (extreme example due to being relatively obscure) Jersey Ave on Track 4 after dark and doesn't see someone on the platform? What happens? I doubt a commuter would call the railroad to complain about an engineer not following the guidelines, but you never know. Jokes aside, I do wonder if there are consequences (non life threatening) for not sounding the horn in those situations.
It could be harder to track than passing a signal at danger or speeding. I'm only a passenger though, so I wouldn't know for sure.

I suppose the rule being for daylight could be for residents not wanting to hear the sweet sounds of K5LAs & Wabco AA2s after dark .

"Operating Rules also require a Long Long Short Long when passing a stopped train on an adjacent track. This does not apply if there is a track between your train and the other train." This makes sense. I could see why it might not be necessary to toot the horn if a train passing on 2 passes a train stopped on 4.

The only time I heard horns near NYP was during maintenance work, for safety concerns.
However the bells (MUs need not apply) are sounded from the tunnels exits to the platforms when arriving at NYP.
Then when leaving NYP, the bells are sounded from the platform to the tunnel(s).
So pretty much in the vicinity of the following interlockings (Not including West Side Yard for LIRR):

1. A
2. JO
3. C

Here's a cool map of the interlockings around NYP, courtesy of Amtrak:

• https://blog.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/NYP_Track-Map_FINAL-1-pdf.jpg

 

You want to drive a real US timetable ,hop on the Harlem line train 309 M7A 07:17 from GCT to north white plains. Arrived at 08:17. I passed 21 trains with around 18 AI in front and behind me. Including 1 AI freight train in total 39 trains. And that’s even without having the M8s for New haven line and diesel trains for Wassaic and Poughkeepsie
This is a Joe time table

 

Dovetail, if you guys are just gonna sweep the timetable concerns under the rug (seeing the post in the mega thread), then I think it's time to move scenario planner 2.0 up the priority list. If we can't even rely on you guys to give us a timetable that represents the actual real-life traffic of the route with the locos available, then AT LEAST give us the creative tools and freedom to implement it ourselves, even if it's only in the form of scenarios and not an extensive timetable. At this point, anything is better than nothing.

 

Why not? 'You' baked the lighting but couldn't edit a few polygons? Weird.

 

looks horrible, esp when it’s almost every single platform

 

It would be good if local or country specific rules and procedures like the use of horns were included in things like route tutorials. I do like to drive prototypically. However, It isn't really something I would be worried enough about trawling through the internet looking for. I know the rules for UK routes pretty much as that is where my knowledge lies, for non UK routes I mainly looked for information on safety systems and signalling, something else I think it would be good to have in game tutorials for, that could include things like the use of horns and bells. You didn't strike a nerve at all.

 

Speaking of horrible things...


Theres also no OHLE in lots of places east of Penn near Sunnyside. Flop!

 

Not my picture but wanted to report this on the Acela. Isle seating mod.

 

So i tried 2519 and that still getting stuck before crestwood because of service 2331 somehow doesn't get the track to switch so he can go over to track 4. I stried spawing in at 8:40am, And I still watched it get stuck again (service 2331). So if you spawn at 08:35 then you are able to hope in 2519 and complete it with no issues and also service 2331 which is whats cuassing the bottle neck is able to get to track 4. DTG JD I tagged to provide feed back. hope information this helps. THis was on the XBOX. Also I ran the timetable to 15:30 from 04:45 on PC (steam), no issues no stuck trains. So i think is somethimes when you swapn in depending on the time and where are the trains located that my cause pathing issues. just my observation

 

So DTG left out many NJT services because there "wasn't enough time". Now that the route is released and there should be time, DTG has no current intention of fixing this? It's so frustrating to me, because with more services this route would be a fantastic release, once the usual DTG bugs were fixed. I used to commute daily on this stretch of the line, and the lack of traffic kills the immersion. I'm expecting to see tumbleweeds blowing across the tracks, it is so dead....

 

Authoring timetables and testing the entire timetable is a time consuming process.

 

Figured I would share this list I’m working on collecting issues (mostly can signaling related) here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/trenton-list-of-issues-cab-signaling-included.65352/
I can hope they are addressed since they kill the immersion factor for me but it seems as though they are not a priority as of now.

 

So now that they have made their sales even though before they released the route they clearly stated "they had ran out of time and that they no plans to fixing the time table". So they were transparent with the community and players still bought the route......... Not sure what to say..... Let's hope this actually happens now after the fact............ This is why I'm still holding out until I see some changes....

 

So? That didn't prevent them to make properly busy timetables for other routes, either right at release or later on in a post-release update. "It's a time consuming process" is not an excuse in modern world software development when over-the-air updates can be easily be made.

 

They don't run there all the way to Long Branch because of the 25kv 60 Hz section Matawan Long Branch since 2002 Currently to South Amboy. In 2001 six car trains to Long Branch seen in this video of the route around Newark in 2001

To make the route more busy they should add and merge the Raritan Valley Line that way you can operate the 08:40 out of Raritan for New York and then the 09:18 High Bridge for NYC

 

Once they extended to long branch they stopped running them to matawan and ran locals from south amboy instead. That was pretty much the end of the comets on the coast line. You’d see them all the time when it was only electrified to matawan.

 

Welcome to page 26

 

A 26 page thread with 1,250 responses and nothing being looked at to fix the timetable. Kinda blows my mind. I get it things don't happen quick but still. Feels like everything we said in this thread will be ignored and the timetable will be left the way it is

 

May as well just turn it into a joke thread at this point

 

You forgot Canada, Switzerland and France.

 

Also, I must add, I expected the timetable not to be fixed on short notice, but the fact that all the clipping issues at NY Penn aren't being looked at is a real dissapointment. Even though I find the route okay overall, with the timetable being it's main shortcoming, I find this really mediocre work from DTG. Those kind of big and widespread clipping issues shouldn't have been there on release, and definetely should be fixed ASAP.

The timetable also needs work, but I can understand that being a long term product and am willing to wait for it. I also think however that a large customer base is lost for the period that the route has a sub-par timetable, so perhaps it's wise to fix that someday to generate more sales of this route.

 

2, April 2022 I posted my open letter to DTG, in which I identify the issue of trains clipping scenery.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/an-open-letter-to-dtg.53456/

Almost a year later and the issue is carbon copied into a new route.

 

In my opinion the only way we get a new timetable is if DTG comes out with a new loco for NJT which will cost 25 bucks and probably won't happen for a long time. Next US content will be a freight route so you are looking at a least a year or longer if anything happens. CAsh already collected, on to the next , repeat......

 

Open letters don't work. May I suggest a meme?

 

Going by the amount of players reporting issues on this thread I predict at least about 80% purchased the DLC. With the good advertising they did and you add everyone else , DTG probably made a very good sale. So yea they are getting some backlash on the content. On any business is normal. I’ll compare DTG to Spirit Airlines ( no offense to them). Passengers will complain about their service and say they will never fly them again. What happens next, those same passengers will book the next flight back on them. And that’s with competition. DTG currently has no competition they know this. Also they know all this will blow over by next week when we start talking about the next content . Is a business to make profits and the stake holders want their funds. Is ugly. I don’t like it but It is what it is. The only thing we can do is either buy or not buy the content, those are the choices

 

Completed a run to Boston from Providence in the Acela this evening and whilst pulling in to Boston during the evening rush hour, I was greeted by a full Boston South Station:



This is what I would wish for NY-Penn Station too. The feel of driving into a bustling big city.

 

It's laughable that in TSW3, Boston South Station is busier than New York Penn... and they wrote that New York Penn is the busiest station in the USA in the introduction scenario monologue of New York to Trenton. So much for a realistic, immersive simulation.

 

It's true that it's the busiest station in the us in real life lol. It's a fact in real life terms

 

Has anyone done any rail fan on the NEC NY-Trenton route around the busiest time of the day to see how many trains pass through the busiest rail station in the US? Would like to get a number and time of day

 

I figure I'll add this here instead of creating another thread - either I'm an idiot, or there is something wrong with the brakes on the ALP-46. I put it into 'service' for 2 seconds, and then go right back to 'lap' & she wants to come to a full-on-stop in about 6 seconds. Am I doing this wrong?

Also, has anyone else noticed that in certain sunny conditions, the aspect display on the ACS is almost unreadable? I took out all the mods I had for the ACS that were related to Boston-Providence & still see this issue.

 

Heard that before on that dreadful LIRR dlc....But I can say the Boston Sprinter has quite some traffic in and out of South Station, that I give credit.

 

The comparisons between Boston South Station and New York Penn are crazy because Boston-Providence was a route developed with the intention to be one of three routes bundled in a $40 pack. It’s a route that basically had a value of $13.33 at release. And it features a timetable that makes Boston feel very alive.

Trenton costs $40 without any extra stuff bundled in with it. This route that costs the same price as the whole Rush Hour trilogy is arguably worse than any one of the RH routes. How do you even do that?

 

They were running to Long branch before the 2002 25kv 60hz live wires from Aberdeen Matawan to Long Branch video is from 2001. Excellent point there

 

Yes its buisness...
But some gaming companies have a far far greater care of their customers. Yes even the niche ones.

We all know DTG enough to know that not the case here. Their base of customers is irrevelant, the forum complaints are irrevelant either, only bringing new customers is important . I suppose it works as a buisness.

I suppose that a lot of people are still happy even with half finished content.

 

I bought the Acela last night and had a drive to Boston and indeed it was very busy. Loved hearing the sounds of the carriages going over the pointwork, the complete experience was very atmospheric and immersive. It has become a favourite route of mine.

Hopefully at somepoint NY Penn will feel as lively.

 

My sentiment exactly. Boston feels so polished as a route now. A go-to for me as well.

 

Lighting and scenery aside, yeah. Such a shame the scenery is quite weak, especially on the southern/western parts.

But the timetable is good with great variety and freight cars at sidings all along the line.

 

The thing is, good timetables are way more important than stunning scenery. I've forgiven scenery on plenty of routes, just because the timetables are so good.

 

I must be honest I thought on the whole it looked better since the upgrade to TSW3 although I only played it briefly before the update. There were a couple of funny blips in tunnels but I didn't come away thinking the route looked awful.