Should We Maybe Have Master Threads Pinned?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Commiee, Oct 5, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    5 vote(s)
    38.5%
  2. No (I will explain below)

    7 vote(s)
    53.8%
  3. I will suggest an alternative

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  1. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    I know there are at least four master threads in this section, but most people who open the section to suggest a route - or something else - have no idea these exist, because these threads rarely surface to page 1. I think having them pinned would serve the following goals:

    • Visibility of already suggested ideas for Suggestions section newcomers, leading to less duplicate suggestions and forum users being more informed about related threads that have been suggested
    • Easy access to devs if/when they want to see most upvoted suggestions for e.g. routes in a certain country
    • More reasons for authors of these threads to keep them up-to-date

    If we had more pinned threads in the section at the moment, maybe this would not be practical, but we usually have no pinned threads here. I don't expect many master list threads to be created with time, as they involve time and effort that not many people have to put into them, but if this happens, maybe then we could create a single thread where everyone who runs a master thread can put their link, to shorten the number of pinned threads again.

    The current master threads I'm aware of are:

    Australian Proposal/suggestion Master List
    Map Of German, Dutch, Swiss And Austrian Route Suggestions
    Master List Of Japanese Route Suggestions
    Preserved Collection Improvement Wishlist Master Thread

    If you know others, or run one, you can link them below and I will add them to this list.
     
  2. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    No, In my opinion, Pinned Threads are annoying to scroll past all the time. I’m unlikely to be interested in all of them and if I am then they are not hard to find.

    I don’t think it will stop newcomers posting duplicates, if they can’t be bothered to search, then they also won’t read pinned threads.
     
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  3. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, but other times search results are not conclusive if you don't know what keywords were used by thread authors, e.g. often search will be done using country name as keyword, while lots of proposal threads don't have countries mentioned in the title. So searching is not a complete alternative to having a list presented to you in a master list.
     
  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    No.

    As people can't be bothered to use the search function before posting something (heck, some people can't even be bothered detailing out a proper suggestion), this would certainly not result in less duplicate suggestions.

    Pretty sure devs have their own methods of browsing suggestions. Besides, we'd only need master lists of the UK, Germany and the US, because the chances of them developing anything else are pretty small.

    No. They shouldn't need this reason. Either they're dedicated enough to update what they've started, or they won't be even if it's pinned.

    This too.

    And I personally dislike these collection threads as it pretty much shows that some people really post a ridiculous amount of suggestions. They can't all be your favourite routes. If you can't choose, then you might as well put up a topic suggesting "any route".

    And this is the worst one of them all. Can't even decide what country the master list was gonna be for. I remember it starting as a list of only Dutch suggestions, but quickly expanding it to Germany (like we really need more German routes...) and Austria/Switzerland, which totally voids the whole point of it originally being a topic to bring the Dutch suggestions under the attention of potential developers.

    Might as well make a master list of ALL suggestions, but then you'd basically have a copy of the whole subforum. (Albeit it in a more orderly order, probably sorted by country).

    If you really need to, make a master list of master lists and just pin ONE topic. Although I doubt it's really gonna be useful.

    EDIT:

    Oh, and it seems we only have master lists for 'minor' countries outside of the 'big 3' that DTG focuses on. The majority of suggestions here seem to be for UK or US, while nobody has took the effort of creating a master list for those two countries. So it's not gonna make whole lot of difference to have a few master lists pinned...
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  5. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    Already replied to this above, so will skip it.
    I wouldn't try to predict chances of them developing outside the three countries, especially once Covid restrictions are off. We have not heard anything from DtG that suggests they will forever stick to those.
    This is not a zero-sum subject. They might be dedicated enough to keep those updated - as some of us have been doing - but having something they have collected for the benefit of keeping their communities informed, being displayed is a bonus.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  6. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Don't really think it is a good idea because every country will want their master thread. As I can't see a Belgian Master Thread, I would do everything I could to get a Belgian railway master thread. :)
     
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  7. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Sub forums for each country / region would be better, one sub forum for each of the big 3 then others for regions, eg rest of Europe, Africa & Middle east, Austrailia & New Zealand, SE Asia, The America's.
     
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  8. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    Also a subsection for non route suggestions. The first time I came here to suggest something I was confused as I could only see route suggestions.
     
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your appreciation of my work :).

    In all seriousness though, there is a reason for me choosing to do that. The railway systems from these countries are quite closely linked, and putting the suggestions for them in the same place was an attempt from me to get people to look beyond just German routes, but also in neighbouring countries. I'd actually love it if the map included even more countries, but outside of these, my expertise ends.

    Also, that map started as a map of the Ruhr Area route suggestions, and expanded from there. It was never Dutch to begin with, the sole reason I included the Netherlands was to draw the attention of people that currently only are interested in German content, with me doing the same for Austria and Switzerland. The map also started as just a thing I did for myself, as I was curious to how the current in-game and suggested routes fit into the system of the German railway network, and making the map has helped me understand that a lot better. Please don't take it that serious.

    I get that the entire project spiralled a bit out of control in your eyes, and it is far from a coherent list even in my eyes. However, looking at the effect it has had on my Dutch suggestions, and those of others after getting listed, I would say it served it's purpose. It did get more attention from German players to other content that isn't an electrified German Main line.

    The goal also was never to bring Dutch routes under the eyes of potential developers. They have their own ways for deciding that, and I knew and know a map isn't going to make them see it more. Developers just look at general demand, and a route that would fit that demand and their technical ability. Usually they only use the forum suggestions to determine demand, and only if they can't find a route that fits that could they look on the forums. Matt touched on this in a stream once, illustrating it using the example of TVL, which DTG decided to do because there was demand for a '90s freight route in their eyes. Only after deciding on TVL did they find out there was actually a forum suggestion about it.

    I will keep your criticisms in mind and think about seperating the maps though, as they are kind of in need of a rework anyways. I also sense a bit of frustration due to the fact there will probably be an entire roadmap filled with modern German electric routes this cycle again, and no Dutch routes, and I can fully understand that. Part of the reason I hate my own most popular suggestion is the fact that I feel like it will probably not bring any interesting and varied content unless DTG makes is exactly as I envision is (which they never will :)).



    To get back on topic: no I don't think master threads should be pinned. Those who don't want to create a duplicate thread will put in the effort to google '..... TSW' first. Those who don't put in that effort will also not look through master lists. I don't know if there even is a way outside of strict moderation to keep out the low-effort duplicate suggestions from the forums, looks like it's going to be like this for a while to come.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    No, you can’t have your thread pinned. You constantly bump your suggestions and now you want your master thread of routes that are never going to be made pinned to the top of the forum. A bit much, don’t you think?

    Once a suggestion is made it shouldn’t stop someone else making a similar suggestion for the same route. Pinning certain suggestions above others will give them a feedback loop of support above other possibly more deserving suggestions. Everyone should have the same chance to suggest something and have their suggestion supported and should not be limited by whether one member thinks it’s important enough to add to their list. “Sorry, your suggestion is not for Japan, so it’s not important.” or “Sorry, there’s already a suggestion for that, so I’m not adding it to the master list.” - these are ways that individual members set themselves up as the judge of what’s important. That should happen naturally.

    The ability to search for something is already available, and master threads may be one place to start for specific countries but they aren’t a reliable cross section of the total pool of suggestions, and the longer they get the less likely someone is to read them anyway. If they are updated regularly they keep coming back to the top of the list, which isn’t always appreciated by everyone. That doesn’t need making worse by pinning them.
     
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  11. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    This is beyond disingenuous, and definitely a bit too much on your part. I listed master threads that people including myself have created throughout this year - making this seem like it's about my thread, so you can come up with a snarky poison-filled reply, is pretty f****g despicable. The same goes for the other disingenuous insinuation that I bump my threads. There are two definitions of 'bumping' according to the rules of this forum - constant bumping with no relevant information (which is not accepted), and occasional bumps when relevant information is added to a suggestion. Everyone does the latter for their proposals, and some people do the former. I've never done the former, and I've done the latter for my and other people's threads. So you will need to make a choice here and either say in this instance everyone else is bumping their threads, or that nobody is doing it in a way that is not permitted. You can't have your cake and eat it, beside the above-mentioned despicable attitude already displayed.
    Nowhere is it implied that some suggestions would be pinned above others - there are a myriad of ways to list suggestions for the same route next to one another, without prioritising anything. The point of master threads is to give people interested in routes in that country an overview of what has been suggested, so that they can decide whether a better proposal than what they might be thinking of creating has already been made, plus giving devs the info on what has been suggested and what is popular among that community.

    There have been helpful and constructive replies in this thread, which are appreciated. If anyone is instead interested in making subjective responses demonstrating assumptions they keep about people around here, that vomit-inducing rubbish is better reserved for elsewhere, as helpful as it is in revealing some people's mentality here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021

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