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So Much Negativity But It’s All Justified

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by Samo1, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    From lack of a proper manual, to bugs reports galore, to stuttering freezing graphics, to lousy quality control and testing, I’m not sure DTG is ever going to produce a polished quality product, it will always scratch an itch but that’s about it, this is one frustrating product from a very frustrating company, releasing below par content is a slap in the face for the customer especially when DTG must know it’s below par and not producing a proper manual to explain the game is indefensible and sloppy
     
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  2. ross.duncan35

    ross.duncan35 Member

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    hope your team does well today,or them and dtg are not going to be good for your health,lol;)
     
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  3. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. The lack of proper docs at the release of a brand new product- plenty of bugs in it at launch time (far too many to be reasonable in my opinion)- and even introducing new bugs in an attempt to fix current ones. On top of that, I suspect DTG will not be able to resolve even half of the open issues in TSW 2. Look at what they did with TSW 2020 for example- they simply walked away from that code and its issues and moved on to a new product... and this is very likely what will happen with TSW 2 at some point as newer product offerings come out.

    We vote with our wallets on anything we purchase. I voted for TSW 2020 and several routes (my first purchases of a DTG product)... and although I really enjoy sim’ing in 2020 despite its numerous issues, I don’t need an entirely new set of bugs and issues to deal with in TSW 2- and that’s exactly why I won’t be purchasing it for the time being. To each his or her own in the end... if folks can live with all of the warts in some of these products, then go for it and enjoy it. For me right now, it’s just not worth it... I expect more for my money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  4. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Bringing bugs from TSW2020 to a so called new product TSW2 is completely unacceptable (passengers still in trains after being parked up for an example) is a joke, The game feels like it’s made by passionate train enthusiasts but not like a professional coding team/company, releasing their first Underground line KNOWING the speed limit is set wrong (comes into operation when the back of a train passes the sign not the front) because they couldn’t be bothered to change from the overground rule is sloppy, so much just feels halfhearted and half finished unfortunately
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  5. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    I just love how the M7 has the M3 horn bug I just love it & how you get 15 FPS at penn station even though you got about 20 or more in TSW2020. Also I agree with you on the passengers situation like how can you still have that bug & say oh we are going to sell a new game. (When people start attacking the people who work at dovetail that would be the time when being negative isn't justified)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure that quite soon (within a year) I’ll have enough routes and trains to keep me happy and I’ll not have to buy much more DLC. After that, life will be so much easier. I’ll be able to wait until the odd new route that interests me is in a sale because I’m not so eager for new content, I won’t have to come on the forum so often, and I won’t have to worry about reporting bugs that I already know will never get fixed when I report them. It’ll be great. Until then, I’ll still be keeping a close eye on progress and hoping that soon we get a reducing number of bugs rather than the ‘bugs squared‘ phenomenon of mixing old and new bugs in the preserved collection import phase of TSW2. I’m enjoying the three new routes that came with TSW2 but not the current experience of being a customer.
     
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  7. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t it be good if Rivet or another third party company could put some decent bug free routes together with a decent frame rate than we can just enjoy without all the disappointment and annoyance that’s become all to familiar
     
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  8. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...I was really (really) looking forward to Sand Patch Grade in TSW 2- I’ve been waiting to get my hands on that 4400 for some time now (being a console player). I was looking forward to the Köln route too... but more than anything, I was hoping that TSW 2 would be a much cleaner release in terms of bugs and issues at launch time. And clearly it wasn’t.

    I’m not sure anything will change on the DTG side to really clean up some of these issues moving forward. I suppose if I worked there, and was responsible for cleaning this mess up, here's what I would do to start:

    - slow down the pace of product being released out of the pipeline, use that free time to make any released products that much better (more bug-free)
    - significantly improve the in-house testing processes (alpha and/or beta-testing and QC)... increase staffing, add more representative test systems, etc.
    - create an external beta-test program where customers could sign up if they wanted to (signing NDA, volunteering to use their own systems at risk, etc)
    - look into any issues with current UE v4.23a- and determine if this ver is a safe bet moving forward (i.e. is 4.23a already causing issues right now?)
    - the overall goal is to increase the quality of current and future product, and *not* to release more half-baked code... whatever it takes to reach that goal
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  9. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I’m waiting for DTG to defend themselves but Sam seems to have gone quiet again unfortunately
     
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  10. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I very much agree. Initially I was hungry for new content, so purchased a lot of routes just for content (LIRR / M3 being the one I regret a lot).

    Now that I've got a reasonable collection (and a much bigger TS collection), I'll only be picking routes that really interest me. I don't see the point buying something at full price knowing it'll be buggy and frustrate me.

    I really wish the bug list would go down, instead we've ended up with a list of bugs that keeps on increasing.
     
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  11. Bob12212

    Bob12212 Active Member

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    I guess another thing could be the NTP crashing issue. Apparently didn't happen to everyone, so maybe more tricky to fix. But according to the road map (as it stands at the moment) NTP will be released before the crash fix. So does that mean they'll be releasing NTP again, knowing part of it is fundamentally unplayable?
     
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  12. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all of this, and it’s funny to see that no one from DTG even attempted to respond to this. Because they know they’re not putting out a high quality process. If they would fully test the routes they make or get people who travel/operate that route to see their recreation of it and provide critical feedback, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now. I really hoped TSW 2 would be a fresh start for DTG because they were actually giving the community key information about the game. But now that the game is out and I’ve had time to play it, I can say that it isn’t a quality product. Some people can’t even get into the game to play it because of some crashes. The Preserved Routes, Bakerloo, SPG, ICE, all littered with bugs, from a Railfan’s perspective I would like to see all of the bugs the community has mentioned fixed. But by the look of things, they aren’t even acknowledging most of the bugs existence. They need to get their game sorted out, for anyone who hasn’t bought the game yet, I suggest you don’t, you will be disappointed by the large amount of annoying bugs.

    At this point, let Rivet Games make 50% of the routes, and get other devs from TS to create for TSW 2, like Just Trains.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
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  13. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Yeah but why would anyone from DTG respond to a post like this? It just comes off as bait, lets be honest here.

    But anyhow, things have been this way for a long time and frankly it might stay that way for the foreseeable future :P
    Dovetail isn't a massive studio with many resources or a huge budget, so when it comes to the business side of things, its much easier for them to push forward and make new content (focusing on putting the improvements into those) rather than polishing things and supporting and fixing older content. With the limited resources available, its just the strategy that makes most sense for them as a business.
    Theres no real malice or incompetence to it. This is unfortunately the ways things are.

    But with all that said, if you go back and look at the routes from TSW's early days...the original Sand Patch Grade. GWE. Rapid Transit... and compare it to the routes that released with TSW2? I dont know about you, but I see MASSIVE differences.
    Sound was really poor back then. There were no passenger information screens. The physics left a lot to be desired. The scenery wasn't as complex and detailed. All those older routes don't feel as substantial as the newer ones.
    Theres been an absolute ton of progress since then, and the quality of life is miles ahead of what it used to be.

    I've been critical of DTG many times before, but at the end of the day...i don't think TSW is a poorly made product. Truth be told, I've sunken lots of hours into this game and have learned soo many new things, not only about how to operate trains, but about the many intricacies that go into a simulator such as this.
    So when I see forum posts like this...yeah..I cant help but feel that there is a lot of unnecessary negativity that surrounds this game. Don't get me wrong, its definitely far from perfect and there's plenty of room for improvement, everyone knows that. The devs surely know that.
    But at the same time, TSW has come a long way from its early days and is much, much better than how it used to be.
    Suffice to say, I think its clear that with all the new improvements of TSW2, and the new roadmap, i think that things are definitely going in the right direction!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  14. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    We observe criticism carefully because it is critical to deciding the priority order for addressing problems.

    As mentioned last week we're in a triage situation where what is most important gets dealt with first. This is about differentiating between issues with the game that prevent people from playing at all, issues that prevent playing as expected and then "everything else".

    Consider the absence of a manual, for example. Important, definitely, but it doesn't stop anyone from playing. Passengers on the train in the depot? Hardly realistic, but again, you can at least play the game. The sound is off-kilter? Breaks the immersion, but again, you can still play.

    If one were to look at the list of feedback we've gathered and prioritise it, the areas of importance would differ from player to player, but few would disagree that if some people can't play at all that takes precedence over being unable to find the light switch to the passenger car.

    The game has been out for just over two weeks. Our first update addressed a minor annoyance, the second addressed some larger problems - like being unable to complete the tutorial on SPG. We're just getting started on working through this list and while any period where the game doesn't meet a player's expectations isn't desirable, we'll get closer to that mark over time.

    Incidentally, nobody has "gone quiet" - this thread was started on a Saturday morning, when the majority of DTG staff are enjoying the weekend. I opted to let it run and see where it went.

    The triage process will take time, stay tuned to the roadmap to see whether it develops in a way you approve of, and by all means ensure your feedback is registered on the tech reports forum where relevant, or in the right platform forum if what you're after is an improvement to how it currently works.

    Keep the criticism coming, we need it.
     
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  15. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    And you’re sure most of the bugs the community has posted on these forums will be looked into and fixed?
     
  16. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    I do remember them saying at launch that once the preserved collection is all done and put out, that team will switch to handling bugs. They do have a small team doing bug fixes but once the team working on the preserves they will become the bug team making that squad bigger. So hold tight and give them a chance to work.
     
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  17. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...thanks for the response, Sam. I do have a couple of follow-up questions for you (or any other manager-director folks these questions should be directed to):

    First, I get the fact that you guys are in triage mode right now and probably have no choice but to operate that way for at least awhile. But... maybe if you guys tried to ‘get ahead of the cart’ so to speak, and started catching some or most of these issues and bugs on your side- before they ever reach your customer base- maybe you wouldn’t be in the triage situation you’re now in. Some issues will always trickle through to customers of course- but maybe it would be a whole lot better than it is now- for DTG and for us as players.

    Has DTG thought about any of this? Are you guys already doing something about getting ahead of this ‘bugs and issues’ cart? If so, can you elaborate on what you’re doing to remedy this issue, and when we as players can expect to see positive changes as a result of this work?

    P.S. Did you see the list of changes I came up with in my earlier text? Any comments on it- and how much of that is DTG actually doing today?
     
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  18. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply Sam, so many of the bugs and problems should be caught in quality testing, the passenger situation not leaving is not game breaking but carrying it over from one game to the next is very very sloppy is it not?

    This game has the word SIM in the title, without a manual there will always be questions users will have because we are mostly not train drivers, who would know about opening driver windows on the tube without being told for example, no manual is plain and simply wrong, go the extra mile and supply one please although that shouldn’t be going the extra mile it should be standard

    customers for this product are obviously the play testers, it seems DTG throw out some code, we the players report back all the many bugs and only the most important get fixed, again this is a terrible way to treat paying customers

    it feels the company lacks respect for its customers, DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT THE QUALITY IS LIKE OF THE SOFTWARE YOU RELEASE WHEN YOU RELEASE IT? ARE YOU REALLY SURPRISED WHEN ALL THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK STARTS TO COME IN? I doubt you are tbh

    As I said, everyone behind the game are top notch train enthusiasts BUT everyone responsible for the game lack what it takes to be top quality software providers, the game scratches an itch but leaves a rash of frustration at the same time,

    DTG needed more competition to drive you forward, the company is lazy because it can get away with anything because you have the market to yourselves especially on console
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  19. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Spoken very well.
     
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  20. Bob12212

    Bob12212 Active Member

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    Could you imagine buying a car...... or for that matter even a camera. To be told ah well, we didn't have time for a manual, but it will come at some point. I know the comparison is a bit drastic for a game. But as someone already said, it's a sim with many functions that are not immediately obvious. I'd say what we have at the moment is a very "quick start" guide.

    It must take ages sifting the bug reports that turn out just to be something that has not been fully explained. In some cases..... not explained at all.

    Sometimes it feels like two steps back. The manual for HRR was rather detailed, all controls etc labelled in the cab. A rather good signalling explanation, including Sifa and PZB. Then to implement a new system of LZB, but have no explanation of how it works.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  21. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to know if DTG understands our frustration and do they think it’s justified?
    Does DTG agree the TSW2 is underwhelming in terms of bugs/frame rate ect ect ect?

    The new Unreal upgrade has been very underwhelming and talked up a bit to much, while it moves you forward with the possibility of steam trains in the future, many of us would sooner you get to grips with the many problems in today’s game

    if the current situation remains I can see many customers voting with their wallets soon because DTG continually make the same mistakes and the game never moves forward, maybe Rivet or others can dig DTG out of a hole because paying customers will only be burned so many times
     
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  22. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I honestly trust Rivet with their route/loco making skills. If they can make a good Island Line for TSW 2, I think the community would like to see more content from them and less made by DTG.
     
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  23. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I think the fact there is still no visible list of known bugs, despite this being requested on a frequent basis is a cause for real concern.
    1. How do we know bugs reported in the technical reports forum have been acknowledged? The community managers answer some reports, but not others. This makes me think (rightly or wrongly) that a lot of the issues I’ve reported have been ignored. This is not a good feeling. I’ve taken the time out of my day to report an issue - a simple thank you, we’ve heard you would not go a miss.
    2. As a minimum this is customer service 101. I know a list of bugs a mile long doesn’t look good, but the absence of one is a million times worse. The road map is superb but we need something specific for the bugs and other issues.
    3. Embrace the bugs. Make them visible. Be loud and proud. It feels like the lack of acknowledgement is DTG burying its head in the sand. Maybe it is. There are a lot of bugs. From my experience, until such time you admit there is a problem, you can’t really start to fix it.
    4. There are three community managers now. There needs to be a significant increase in community engagement. Get us involved. Use us. Abuse us.
    5. Yes, setting expectations is important, but make lists of wanted content like the road map, regardless of whether you are working on it or not. Show us what you want to achieve. List what we want you to achieve.
    6. Be more open. The road map is a good start, but people are clearly unhappy. It’s not the end of the world, it’s just a game. What can you possibly tell us that will ruin anything? Keep some surprises, yes, that would be cool, but build on the road map.
    It’s really up to DTG how to take this forward, but it’s clear something needs to change. A start has been made. Keep up the momentum.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  24. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    Bugs belong in a Bugtracker, e.g. Bugzilla. Programm changes, add-ons, feature extensions etc belong in a Roadmap. At least that´s how we handled it in the company i worked for.

    Putting bugs in a 14-day Roadmap rises customer expectations and puts unnecessary pressure on the developers/company.
     
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  25. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I never said to put them in the road map.
     
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  26. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. We wouldn’t be as upset as we are if they just acknowledged the bugs we post here on the forums. I sometimes think they are just ignoring the bugs I post here along with many other people’s bugs.
     
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  27. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    No, you of course didn´t. But DTG does it this way.
     
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  28. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It's quite a bizarre use of a roadmap. It very much comes across as a token effort to show off, as opposed to having much meaningful use.

    Just a list of known bugs is all that's needed, updated when fixed etc. That way customers can see if progress has been made.
     
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  29. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for the lateness in responding to this post, I've been otherwise engaged.

    Isn't making sure that the game can be played what your QA team are supposed to have done before the game was actually released?

    There are many configurations of PC, but the majority of people who are having issues appear to have consoles. Sony or Microsoft.

    It does if you can't get the train to move because of some technical brake issue that would have been in a true simulator manual. But as long as they have got to that point, the game must be running, so from your previous comment, your initial goal has been achieved!

    Both issues present in TSW2020. You told us that this was a NEW game, therefore should it be unreasonable that people don't expect to see the same issues appear?

    Should have been picked up by the QA team. I hope you aren't paying them or haven't yet because if they had been employed by me to provide a service and their work was this shoddy, they wouldn't be paid until the product was fit for purpose.

    You most certainly do, question is what will DTG do with it?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  30. Bob12212

    Bob12212 Active Member

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    So as long as the game just runs and doesn't crash, sounds like that's a good day at the office? I mean it's fantastic that it runs and people can play. Problem is if all the other issues mentioned above are not addressed fully because they don't stop the player from playing. Maybe the play will stop playing because of the immersion breaking issues?

    People continue to play, despite the hiccups, because they have a real passion for the genre, and I'm sure they (me included) want to see DGT make a real success of it. Something I think DGT should be very thankful for.

    It's so frustrating because tsw 2 is an improvement, for me it looks so much better with 4k support, breaths life into the old routes again. So as others have said, it's not all doom and gloom.
     
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  31. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 feels like an enthusiasts project, not a professional piece of software, lack of a manual and bugs carried over from a previous game is certainly not professional, it’s copy and paste code no one could be bothered to rectify, it’s sloppy and it’s lazy
     
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  32. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Even I have a real passion for the genre, and I am a Railfan. I’ve stopped playing because we expect an immersive experience. Not a SIMULATOR with bugs that makes trains behave differently than in real life. With me being a irl railfan, certain things are immediately noticeable for me. I will notice speed limits, noise, and other bugs. It’s difficult for me to just ignore them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  33. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    Proper Manuals seem to be a thing of the past. Nearly every game i know, simulators included, has no in-depht manual. Not even the brand new Flightsimulator from a big, well known Software Company.
    This is no excuse, but i think we should concentrate on all the other issues you mentioned.

    Btw, there is an excellent User created manual. Maybe the thread could be made sticky in "Creation Center" ;)
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/out-now-tsw2-starters-guide.25913/
     
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  34. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I watched last nights roadmap stream and yes it was interesting, lots of talk about bug fixes and the like but fixing bugs is a result of not proper testing and I’m sure many would sooner have a better product to start with, I’m a gamer of nearly 40 years! I know exactly what to expect from games, I’ve played thousands of the them, bugs are a way of life but I have played a multitude of games far more complicated to code than TSW with less bugs, it’s easy to say In the past that not all consoles are the same and we can’t test everything, other companies manage to do so or get patches out far quicker, not all bugs are crash bugs, some are simply code related or stuck red lights!!! the truth is quality control is lousy at best OR DTG is prepare to release substandard software with little regard and simply try and address the problems when the community start moaning about them,

    I’m really interested to see what Rivet deliver, it might be third party companies that keep me on this journey or it might be time to find a different type of transport to get my simulation fix
     
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  35. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    The roadmap updates are a really good thing for sure, but I'm still confused about priorities. They said that fixing game-breaking bugs is a priority. Good, so why reinstating London landmarks on Bakerloo Line is in the list and nothing about framerate and freezing issues? The Shard and Wembley Stadium are more important than game fluidity?
     
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  36. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Because... “LOGIC.”
     
  37. NekoTashi

    NekoTashi Member

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    Its like buying tomato soup from the supermarket. The customer makes it and eats it. The soup taste like garbage and the customer complains to the company that makes the soup. The reply of the company states the following: "As long as the soup is edible and it has tomato in it, then that's what's important to us, we don't prioritize taste". So because a game is "playable" then all the rest doesn't matter?! What kind of simulator is this?! XDDDD A simulator is to simulate something from real life. Do you see bugs in real life?! Do you see passengers staying in the train at the depot in real life?! Oh right, you guys don't care about that. As long as the game is playable, then we can screw ourselves. You are really pushing us to buy another train simulator made by another developer team. Keep working like that, and soon you will be without a job. ;)
    The fact that you made a typo as a community manager, is embarrassing! And don't tell me that there are tons of people not being able to play the game, cause you know very well that's not true! XD I call this an excuse to not work at all.
    What's over time?! 20 years?! Maybe never?! Cause that's how it usually happens. XD Don't give us false hopes please.

    *Note to moderator & edit: Rubbish is not a word that I use in my writings. I'm not from England, so please don't change my way of writing to yours. If there is a word that you can't handle, then mark it with this ***** instead of putting words that I would never say. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
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  38. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    Prioritise is spelled correctly. It’s the British English (correct way) of spelling it.
     
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  39. Slemcer

    Slemcer Active Member

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    I'd say the criticism in the above post from NekoTashi is a little "over the top". What annoys me most is the amount of bugs and that there is not even one route or one loco without bugs. That's what really spoils the fun.
    It also doesn't help anyone to complain about the differences in spelling between AE and BE!
     
  40. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I'd also feel the criticism is perhaps a little over the top, however the number of bugs does make the game unenjoyable at times. I was really looking forward to RSN being ported, however the number of new bugs have made it disappointing.

    Dovetail really need to try harder at fixing bugs. The roadmap at this point seems like a token effort that is almost purely for show...
     
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  41. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I was blamed for being too negative after just a few hours of gameplay, but as weeks go by it seems I was 100% right. Tsw2 is a big step back and more and more people are realizing it. The technical section of this forum is exploding and it seems DTG needs an army to fix all that stuff. I'm afraid that things like stuttering, bad textures and broken sounds will be there forever. In Italy we say "fare il passo più lungo della gamba", literally a step longer than the leg. That's what DTG just did. Why don't you stop releasing tons of new bugged content and focus on fixing what you already delivered?
     
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  42. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    For me, however, it is a big step forward, but there are many mishaps.
     
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  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If they removed all the scenery the framerate would be excellent and the stuttering wouldn’t happen as often. Would that be the kind of bug fix you would like to see? Some things like game optimisation are ongoing and are constantly being worked on and aren’t really what would be seen as specific bugs to fix but general development or improvement and therefore might not appear on the roadmap. Otherwise it would constantly be on the roadmap and appear to never be resolved as the work on it never stops. The missing scenery is a single issue bug and has a simple fix that can be achieved quickly and that’s why it’s on the list. Two different kinds of issue.
     
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  44. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure about it. The overground section of Bakerloo Line isn't so much more detailed than other older routes, but performances are definitely worse. I'm not a programmer, but there is clearly an optimization problem, or some loading issue. Draw distance wasn't improved at all and texture resolution is worse than ECW or even GWR. It should run better but it doesn't...
     
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  45. JonnE

    JonnE Active Member

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    With the upcoming next generation of consoles the stuttering issues are most likely affecting a continuisly decrrasing number of users over the time.
    During the end of a lifecycle of a console generation those do happen quite often as the released games tend to squeeze out a maximum of power out of the consoles.
    I remember having stuttering issues in GTA 5 on the Xbox 360 back then...
    ... what I find suspicious is that the PS users seem to be far more affected by them this time. I'm using a xbox one of the first generation and am enjoying a much smoother experience (also on the preserved routes in comparison to TSW2020)...

    I really hope that I'm wrong but if I were a developer I would focus on next gen development instead of high performance improvements for current gen here. 'Minor' issues that are quite easy to fix, sure, but not much more with such a higher potential in sight.

    With my former car it was hardly possible to get the fuel consumption under 10l per 100 km (12 on the Autobahn)... the predecessor averages 5-6 easily despite having twice the power.
     
  46. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    NekoTashi I have edited your message slightly to remove the inappropriate language. Your criticism is welcome and at no point has anyone said that more issues won't be resolved but please keep your posts in line with the forum rules.
     
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  47. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    You clearly havn´t been pub crawling in the "Altstadt" (old town) of Cologne and then taking the last train home :)
    Patience, the game will get better.
     
  48. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine once fell asleep on the London Underground. It was the last train. He was far from home :) I know, it's off-top...
     
  49. Railmaster

    Railmaster Active Member

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    What bothers me is not the faults it has and will have. It bothers me that there are mistakes that can be avoided. A question of quality management. It always makes a very bad impression when you have the feeling that a product has been pounded in front of you because of the necessary emissions. Even if that is the norm.

    It's good that TSW2 is gaining momentum more slowly than quickly - as long as it serves the quality. But it's also annoying again when PC DLCs come up with new errors. A vicious circle!

    Better to enjoy an old route without errors in TSW2020 than in TWS2 with new bugs. That doesn't make anything better. But who would buy TSW2020 if there is TSW2? So you have to get the old tracks over quickly so that TSW2 sells well. It's just stupid if you incorporate new errors that TSW2020 didn't have. Quality management! Here the cat bites its tail. That doesn't work!

    And if there is still hope that third-party providers will do better than DTG themselves - then that is not a good omen!

    It's not about mistakes! Mistakes happen, mistakes are corrected. It's a question of quality. Mistakes are forgiven, but not lacking quality.

    TSW can and will certainly be very successful in the future, especially on the consoles, just like TS on the PC. But only with quality.

    It is all and only a question of quality! Then you can even allow yourself to make mistakes, but never the other way around. But I think that this has now arrived at DTG. A loyal community stands behind TSW and DTG and is tolerant of mistakes - but not of quality!

    As far as I could see now, the further development makes me optimistic. I want to hope that I am not mistaken about this.
     
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  50. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    There is always the question of quality management or the lack of it.

    Shortly after TSW 2 came out people were complaining about not being able to finish "Fully Fueled" on SPG. I could finish it.
    So if i were a "quality tester", i would have said, it´s fine, it works, release it.

    How often do you want to test one service or scenario? Once, twice or a hundred times. I think it´s unfair accusing DTG of bad quality management. The game is complex, things can go wrong in different ways, and i don´t think anybody in the company is happy with the bugs.
     
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