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The End Of Tsw?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Digital Draftsman, Aug 28, 2018.

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  1. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I've done a quick example to show how effective bump maps are. Keep in mind this is an example that took me a minute to generate. For a game I'd spend several hours perfecting it, I'd also do the rails as seperate piece of geometery.

    You start with some geometry, in this case a flat plane, just one polygon.
    bump_01.jpg

    You then add a texture.
    bump_02.jpg

    Then finally you add a bump map.
    bump_03.jpg

    The bump map tells the game how the light should be cast across the surface, so although it looks 3D it's not, it's just an illusion. Whilst it's not as good as using the actual geometry it's a lot less costly to render in game but still looks pretty good.
     
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  2. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Mr SD40,

    How’s about you write down exactly what it is that is so wonderful about TSW. I’m sure we’d all be genuinely interested to know what it is we’ve all missed, that you seem to be able to see.

    Off you go....
     
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  3. SD40Australia-Daniel

    SD40Australia-Daniel Member

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    This is the kind of negativity that we have to deal with. Boredom does it.

    I had to leave one forum because they were flaming (one of them were admins!) TSW. And then they come here. Or the same negativity.

    SD40Australia-Daniel
     
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  4. SD40Australia-Daniel

    SD40Australia-Daniel Member

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    Everything, and to top it off, you are here in this forum! Enough said. Now go away.

    SD40Australia-Daniel
     
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  5. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    We’re waiting...

    ps I’m not sure you’ve even read the post you’ve quoted. If you have then you haven’t understood it.
     
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  6. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    Are you even listening to yourself? You're literally saying to ignore negative things and pretend like everything is perfect. Do you realise what quality products would have if every consumer were of that mindset?
     
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  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    F08BC5BC-41A4-4A54-88A4-D08F48828503.jpeg Poor graphics, yeah sure. Haha!
     
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  8. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Thats pretty neat! I hope theres some mileage in the idea of swapping out textures like that. I like the way you describe it too.
     
  9. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    A screenshot cannot show the graphical issues..popping etc. Keep trying.
     
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  10. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I don’t have the popping issues because I play on PC.
     
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  11. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Sleeper chairs in wsr?
     
  12. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    So do I, a good one. All the issues I described earlier are present and incorrect in TSW
     
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  13. SD40Australia-Daniel

    SD40Australia-Daniel Member

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    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/the-end-of-tsw.12518/page-4
    Have a read before you post next time.

    SD40Australia-Daniel
     
  14. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    There is one thing i like about this debate- it for the most part is targeting facts. We might disagree but thats ok. I try not to get personal but sometimes its just so damn easy to get sucked in.
    Anyway, ts20xx is getting the miles tanked up now instead.
     
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  15. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I don’t have WSR.
     
  16. SD40Australia-Daniel

    SD40Australia-Daniel Member

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    As far as I know Sandpatch Grade CSX Heavy Haul was released last year. 18 months ago. They released it on the date they gave in advance. It wasn't delayed and was as promised.

    Maybe you should look at yourself if it is exasperating. I don't see how a game can be exasperating?

    How is TSW proceeding too slowly? You fail to even make a case. In fact you have contradicted yourself. CSX Heavy Haul is FINISHED and there are now five more products standing alongside it.

    What will make it proceed faster, when in fact it is a finished product? They will continue to release DLC at a really good pace, but I think you fantasize about having a new TSW route every weekend? How much money do you have? If you cough up five million GBP maybe you can get DTG or a private developer to make a few routes for you. A bit pricey, but it sounds like you are made of money?

    Oh that is right. You expect everything immediately. Entitlement attitude.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-entitlement-tendencies-and-how-overcome-them
    Here is a link that will help all these people in here with this Entitlement Attitude. It should help you stop feeling exasperated, and all those other things you feel as entitlement 'gifted' individuals feel.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-entitlement-tendencies-and-how-overcome-them

    https://lonerwolf.com/sense-of-entitlement/



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    SD40Australia-Daniel
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Here is what RSN looks like on PC with the engine.ini tweaks. No popping at all:
     
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  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You are right, but CSX does need a few fixes. The trains don’t get dark in the tunnels, and the overall lighting in the route needs some repair. Also in the engine room on the YN2 SD40-2 there is a texture glitch when you open the doors.
     
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  19. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Not having a go at you in any way but I don’t agree with this comment.

    If DTG knew that the signalling was broken then they shouldn’t have released the route. Simple as.

    To then for DTG to then say that it won’t be fixed because it takes too long is a big middle finger at the customers that purchased this DLC.

    Have they even offered people that have purchased this route a refund or discount on future DLC’s? If not, then that is pure ignorance and shows that they do not care.
     
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  20. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Then you maybe are not aware of the issue.
     
  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They never said that it won’t ever be fixed, they said that they don’t have any plans to fix it any time soon.
     
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  22. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I am aware.
     
  23. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

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  24. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    lets just say that history is not on their side ;)
     
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  25. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s not like it’s an easy fix. They have to re signal the entire route. That would take a lot of time.
     
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  26. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    ATkc9xR.png
     
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  27. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    product-lessons-from-the-early-days-at-friendster-by-dan-olsen-13-638.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2018
  28. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    I just had a look at this again Digital Draftsman. Its pretty amazing to my non pc software programmer brain that you managed to cook that up so quickly. It kind of gives me hope that's there's solutions to some of the issues that no one seems to want to own, pick up and run with.
    Again a great post. Thanks for sharing it.
     
  29. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    You're right. This is quite interesting to me as well. Can you get a close up of the sleeper chairs (what the rail sits in on the sleeper) so I can compare it to wsr? Its a very different experience, trust me. Im wondering if they tried to create a really detailed track in wsr and not so much with your dlc that you show. Not to imply one is better than the other- smooth scenery generation is my concern.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2018
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  30. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I’ll see if I can get one.
     
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  31. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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  32. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you consider whining, but nothing I said even comes close, it was all constructive.

    I simply mentioned one problem, I didn't feel the need to list more than one because we all know what they are and have been documented well on this forum, listing the problems was not the point of this thread.
     
  33. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

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  34. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Yeah- the sleeper chairs in WSR are much more intrusive on the scene. Shame they didn't go for that steel hoop design (ill try and find a photo) but I guess its authentic this way. Trouble is they are very distracting when they are drawn into the scene.. thanks for providing the photo. Its a little more clarity.
     
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  35. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    This is Toronto but it kind of shows something fairly similar to what is common in the UK too. I guess the kind of popping I refer to could be avoided either with a better design choice at conception or through a texture replacement.

    1200px-Third_Rail_for_Toronto_Transit_Commission.jpg
     
  36. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s the way DTG chose to do the LODs. They can change the distance that they appear.
     
  37. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    If they increase the distance does it have an impact on performance? I remember reading something about this but cant remember any detail..

    thinking about the 2D debate earlier in the thread..
     
  38. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It probably won’t affect performance.
     
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  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    PC users can manually change the settings in the .ini file which will stop the track sleepers and tree popping effects, which doesn't have a lot of performance impact if you're wondering, however this shouldn't happen in the first place as the default settings are set far too low by DTG.
     
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  40. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Yes, thats true- except for the WSR sleepers. They are somewhat unique and although the engine.ini stuff makes GWE look pretty good, it doesnt seem to influence those damn sleeper chairs in WSR..

    I might have another go in a few weeks but ts2xx with the breadth of scenarios and traction is my go to at the moment. Paddington to didcot keeps the route knowledge ticking over..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2018
  41. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that the foliage LOD distance command affects other things besides the trees. It makes the ties in RSN render at at a farther distance.
     
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  42. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Now that is good intel. Ill give that a try tomorrow.
     
  43. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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  44. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Yes it will certainly reduce the performance, the only debate would be by how much.

    Your graphics card (GPU) will only render what is visible on the screen to the player in each frame as there's no point rendering things which are not visible (i.e. behind the train). To know what is visible to the player the graphics card must perform a calculation using every vertex (corner of a polygon) to establish whether that vertex is visible to the player and whether it should render it (rendering is a calculation using geometry, textures and light to determine the colour each pixel should be). Every chair and sleeper will add to this calculation, so even if they are not visible to the player they will still hit performance.

    Draw distance is the distance from the player that an object will have its vertices added to the calculations; This is why they 'pop' into existance as they come within range and are suddenly added to the calculations the GPU is doing.

    LOD's (Levels of Detail) are several 3D models which represent a particular object, each one more detailed than the last, the more detailed ones replacing the more basic ones as the player gets closer. The LOD's mean that a smaller number of vertices are being added to the calculations and that vertices which don't add anything to the appearence of the object are not drawn, i.e you can't tell if a cylinder has 12 sides or 6 sides from 200m away, so you only need to render a 6 sided one.

    The reason DTG limit the draw distance is to give reasonable performance (30fps) on an average machine during all points of gameplay. If you have a top spec gaming PC you could increase the draw distance and still maintain that 30fps, or even get a higher FPS depending on where you have the fps capped. With consoles DTG are struggling to get the 30fps, so they have had to cut back on the draw distance as well as reduce train lengths and number, as trains are the most detailed objects in any given scene and getting rid of them is an easy way (cheat?) to improve performance.

    Of course the quality of the scripting involved in the game can have a big impact on performance, but that's a whole different story!
     
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  45. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    People have increased the draw distance and had little if no FPS drops.
     
  46. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say anything to the contrary.
     
  47. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this! Ill make sure to have my fps counter going. Im not looking for miracles but it will certainly be interesting to muck around with it.
    Thank you both for your contributions and ill let you know if i meet with any success. :)
     
  48. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    I just tried this on WSR with excellent results, and no discernable framerate drop. I didn't have the fps counter up because I wanted to see if I could notice a difference rather than being told a difference existed.
    Sleeper chairs no longer pop in with this addition.
    FYI I set it to a value of 10 straight out the box. GTX 1060 and an old i5, 16gb ram.

    Again thanks to you both for some great feedback.
     
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  49. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad that you can enjoy it better now!
     
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  50. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Are the trees better?
     
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