The Importance Of Munich Hbf In Tsw: Comprehensive Reasons Why Hma Route Needs Big Timetable Update

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by cloudyskies21, Feb 1, 2023.

  1. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    With German content being consistent for high-quality overall when it comes to timetables and layering, rolling stock choice and service type variety (commuter, freight and high-speed) across a lot of the routes, this is absolutely fantastic and is certainly what keeps me interested in TSW in the long-term.

    However, despite all the positives, there is one major factor I think DTG has to rectify going forward, especially from an immersion perspective - and that is does a specific older route deserve to be updated to the same level of quality we see today, especially if it features one of Germany's biggest and most important stations?

    For example, what I'm recommending is that there is one older German TSW route that absolutely needs to be updated timetable-wise and that is Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg (HMA). Just to be clear, I don't expect hardly any of the oldest TSW routes to ever be updated, however I feel HMA is a major exception for a sole reason: Munich Hbf. This is especially important when considering some of the most newest routes in TSW feature the likes of the ICE 1, which is synonymous with Munich Hbf, which itself is a vitally important terminus for long-distance north-south services etc. Munich Hbf in HMA also needs a lot more regional services as well to make it more realistic.

    IMG_20190521_122600.jpg
    The real Munich Hbf is one of Germany's most important and busiest stations. The TSW version needs to be given a major timetable update as well as feature the likes of newer rolling stock to the game, such as the ICE 1 (pictured) All pictures taken by myself

    I think this is an ideal time for an update considering the much-anticipated BR 420 is still scheduled to come to HMA at some point in the future, according to the latest roadmap.

    Obviously, while HMA is now an older route by TSW standards, it would be great to see such an important station - specifically Munich Hbf as well as the surrounding stations like Munich-Pasing - actually have lots of AI traffic to make it busy with a Joe Joethefish -inspired timetable, as well as allowing existing rolling stock that has has since been introduced in-game after HMA, from high-speed and regional types such as the superb ICE 1 and 101 to the 612 etc to be used on the route too. For example, comparing Bremen Hbf from the most recent German route to Munich Hbf from HMA regarding busyness and there is no comparison.

    IMG_20190521_122724.jpg
    The BR 101 is one of the best locos in TSW, and certainly deserves to be added to Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg (HMA). There have been a plethora of new rolling stock that has since come to TSW after HMA all those years ago - so a justifiable reason why the route needs updating

    Another factor I feel is highly important, again from an immersion point of view, stems from the second newest German route: Schnellfahrstrecke Kassel-Würzburg. With this fantastic high-speed route on TSW having a lot of the services operated by the ICE 1 here - as per reality - a lot of these are going to/from Munich Hbf. While obviously realistic in real-life, the ICE 1 needs to be brought to HMA because of this reason: immersion! Plus, the fact it gives the ICE 1 another high-speed route with LZB too.

    Having recently played HMA again and, despite how empty it is - with exception of the S-Bahn - the actual route is quite enjoyable, especially on the approach to/from Munich Hbf with all the signalling and track which looks great - now imagine how epic that would be with lots of AI traffic. Just to add, while the high-speed services with the ICE 3 are quite short, I do enjoy these very much, so the more the merrier with the ICE 1!

    IMG_20190521_122734.jpg
    As well as more high-speed traffic, a lot more regional services needs to be added to Munich Hbf in HMA to make it feel more realistic

    ICE at Munich Hbf.jpg
    With a plethora of ICE services from Schnellfahrstrecke Kassel-Würzburg going to/from Munich Hbf, to feel more immersive in TSW I'd argue Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg (HMA) needs an update to reflect such


    It's important to point out that other major German stations have already been updated with more traffic - the best example of that is Köln Hbf from Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen (SKA). Thanks to the 'New Journeys Expansion' in TSW 2, Köln Hbf is a million times better than what it was like in the original timetable, with more traffic, both playable and AI, as well as static stock too. Again, this why Munich Hbf and HMA in general needs such an update. Another example of a quality update to a large station was Hamburg Hbf from Hamburg-Lubeck (HBL); while this is indeed a newer route, a later update saw the addition of a plethora of AI traffic to Hamburg Hbf - a brilliant choice, and certainly makes the route feel so much more alive.

    To conclude, my overall point is that one of the most busiest and important stations in Germany remains stuck in limbo being almost completely empty and unrealistic in TSW - and this can't remain as is when compared with Köln, Dresden, Bremen, Würzburg, Hamburg etc within the game. So, unless there's ever a new route that features Munich Hbf, the station currently in HMA will remain the only representation of it.

    So, please DTG, seriously consider updating HMA with a new timetable with more AI traffic and allow us to use newer applicable rolling stock like the legendary ICE 1 where it belongs! As I mentioned earlier, with BR 420 scheduled to come to HMA at some point in the future, this seems a logical time to update the route! I felt that HMA was an ambitious route that came way too early to TSW, and thus justifies an update now to bring it to the same level of quality now associated with more recent German content. I appreciate such is a huge effort work-wise, but overall worth it for a timetable to match the real-life Munich Hbf. Just to add, I don't care for TSW 3 lighting, gameplay and timetable is more important than graphics.

    IMG_20190521_132852.jpg
    According to the latest roadmap, the BR 420 is still scheduled for HMA - this is an ideal time to update the route, and more specifically Munich Hbf, with a lot of AI traffic to make it feel more busier as per reality

    I appreciate this thread could have also been in the suggestions forum, but I wanted this to be more than just a suggestion and instead a discussion.

    Thanks for reading!
     
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  2. wcwood92

    wcwood92 Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to take that S-Bahn underground
     
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  3. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Furthermore, ES64U2 Red DB Yellow Dispolok and Black MRCE versions do need more services here including Nightjet Railjet services to or from Munich Hbf. Right now those are only doing freight on HMA.
    Videos of ES64U2 Nightjet railjet Munich Hbf




    This needs to happen on the 20:40 Munich Hbf to Augsburg Hbf and 08:40 Augsburg to Munich trip these are RJX 63/66 Frankfurt am Main to Budapest Keleti via HMA
     
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  4. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think anything that brings more life to the routes is a bonus.

    German routes are the best for seeing plenty of things and I wish the Uk routes would catch up.
     
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  5. Isaak

    Isaak Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree that HMA deserves such an updated and expanded timetable.

    Yesterday I did a freight service with the SKW DB BR 185 on HMA and got emergency braked twice by PZB at a clear/green Vorsignal. Never encountered that before on HMA, so I therefore suspect that this 185 is not suited for HMA. This adds to the need of a Rush Hour-style update to the route. (And please also fix the faulty signals on the route here).
     
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  6. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    As much as I love this idea, busy HMA begs the question of performance. München Hbf is a performance problem as it is, imagine it filled with traffic to the real extent.
     
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  7. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely agree. Munich Hbf needs an overhaul. It could extremely benefit from the 101, 401 and the BR 420 (whenever that one releases). Sure, all the 101-IC-Services will be sandwich formations as we still don't have the beautiful and much needed cabcar. But even in sandwich formation, it would be great. And as said above, the NJ and EC trains going to Austria with the BR 182 would be a great addon as well.
     
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  8. Choo choo

    Choo choo Well-Known Member

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    In Munich, there is also one TGV service a day arriving/departing from/to Paris, it would be good immersion wise to add it.

    And you could say the same about other German routes. RRO is lacking IC- and ICE traffic for example.
    MSB has IC- and ICE trains stopping at Aschaffenburg, that continue on the main line until after Lohr Bf, where they join the high speed line to Wurzburg.
    RSN has Hagen Hbf that also sees same type of traffic.

    Hamburg Hbf has 5+ trains a day departing to Copenhagen and Aarhus in Denmark. Right now they are run with Danish rolling stock, but from April 2023 the plan is to replace these with Vectrons + German IC coaches (the ones that are already in the game - the Danish operator DSB is leasing them from DB). I'm pretty sure you could have these represented as AI services with a BR 182 + aforementioned IC coaches. Immersion-wise this would make a great difference for me, and I am sure for many of you as well. :)

    As far as Scandinavia is concerned, Hamburg Hbf is already receiving night trains to and from Denmark/Sweden and the plan is that there will be even more of these in the future. These could also appear as AI trains for... well you guessed it, immersion purposes.

    I am sure many other examples could be cited, that is just from the top of my head.

    This thread raises a good point about "maintenance" of timetables once new rolling stock is added.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
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  9. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I've had similar PZB issues with green signals on HMA with multiple types including the dostos, 423 and ICE 3 - so definitely something DTG has to look into as can be highly frustrating when you're not doing anything wrong PZB-wise!

    I've not suffered any performance issues with HMA on Series X - what platform are you on out of interest?

    Absolutely, even without the much-requested cabcar, having two 101s is pretty cool nonetheless. Regarding the 182, could these also replicate other international services like this ALEX 183 I saw at Munich (see picture below) which goes to the Czech Republic I believe? If I recall, already on TSW, specifically Dresden-Chemnitz, there are AI-only services with 182s using IC coaches.
    IMG_20190521_122608.jpg
     
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  10. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    A big YES! I can't imagine what Joethefish could do on this route to improve the timetable and implement AI services.

    But previously they should work to improve performance in the Munchen area which has been problematic since launch. In fact, this is the only route where old generation console users don't have any additional layers.

    Obviously it can't be free, it would cost many hours of work to realise. I hope DTG will find a way to make it happen, something similar to SKA's new journeys package, and that it can be profitable for them. If not, I think it will stay as it is.

    But even if it doesn't, maybe in the future there will be another route built from scratch with origin, destination or via Munchen where all the additional traffic can be implemented.
     
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  11. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. And please revitalize Leipzig as well. I watched a cab ride on YouTube that ended in Leipzig Hbf and it’s a very, very busy station.
     
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  12. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps while the timetable is worked on the station and surrounds could be looked at with a view to optimising using the latest tech so these large and complex stations are not a resource hog and they can be filled with traffic.
     
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  13. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you and the other route where you tend to see the twin DB Baureihe 101 is Bahnstrecke Bremen Oldenburg were you actually have them running normal service an example is the 12:29 IC56 Norddeich Mole Magdeburg Leipzig trip from Oldenburg Hbf that one is actually comprised of two DBAG Baureihe 101s. 183 also runs to München Hbf as ÖBB Baureihe 1216.
    Video of 183 ÖBB Baureihe 1216 München Hbf



    When it comes setting up the locomotive you must go inside the engine room to find the following switches ZWS Remote Brake Selector Sifa and battery switch 1:20-1:30 on the video
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
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  14. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I'm on PC, a rather beefy one. It is definitely playable, but you can see a significantly lower FPS in Munich compared to the rest of the route, so I am worried what more trains and more importantly train variety can do to it.
     
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  15. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    There’s loads of routes that could do with a new timetable, GWE, LIRR, HAM etc etc
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    IF DTG were to give HMA an overhaul (and this is all speculation here, folks), then I wish they could go ahead and make a 2D backdrop of the Old City skyline, which in real life looms over the Hauptbahnhof but in the game is nowhere to be seen. It's like Köln with the cathedral left out. or Edinburgh without the castle and Scott monument.
     
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  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I can’t see this happening with the performance history this route has. There aren’t even any layers on gen 8 consoles and it barely worked on those. Adding more layers to what’s on the full version would probably cripple all platforms. DTG practically ruined the performance of SKA on PS5 with their expansion pack timetable. Sometimes it’s better to leave things as they are.
     
  18. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Alex have some cool paint jobs as well! :)
     
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  19. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Bremen route is the same. It hammers me at times and that's when stations empty. I thought the performance tester was supposed to eradicate it
     
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  20. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Any additional TGV services to TSW would be awesome, even if just a couple of services for HMA as it's a superb train, would use more existing content for a better timetable and, as you say, is great for immersion.
    Much agreed. While it would most likely be a time-consuming process to do for every route as more newer trains are added to TSW in the long-term (although I do think this is a great idea overall), however I feel this is absolutely important at least to update regarding ICE services for the routes you mentioned. One other route which has real-life ICE services too is Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr (HRR) - see my picture below at Duisburg Hbf. To have such busy German routes continue without ICE services represented in TSW is now a major negative for immersion considering there's multiple ICE variants currently in TSW; meanwhile it's also important to consider the likes of MSB for example which came even before any German high-speed content had ever existed in TSW, so another good reason for updating. On the contrary, it's also important to point out that the oldest German route in TSW - Rapid Transit - even had ICE trains eventually added to the timetable, even though as AI-only, it does show that other TSW routes can and should follow suit. I also like your suggestions regarding international services to/from Hamburg Hbf - would be brilliant to see those!
    ICE Duisburg.jpg

    Ah okay no worries, that's valid reasons Monder - the only route that my Series X really struggles with is the Bremen route for some reason which is frustrating - and the micropauses/stuttering nearly always occurs only when travelling at higher speeds.
     
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  21. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, I'm not saying none of these don't deserve to have timetable updates too. But, I think some of the German routes would be justifiable as high priority, especially HMA with Munich Hbf. Why you ask? There's a few main factors to consider, such as because German content now has a vast amount of suitable locos that already exist in-game and are operated by the same company (just think how many such new locos - consisting of high-speed, commuter and freight - that have come to TSW since HMA all those years ago), and nearly all of these can be used on a swathe of different TSW routes across the country. Secondly, newer TSW routes like Schnellfahrstrecke Kassel-Würzburg came with brand-new rolling stock such as the ICE 1 which, firstly, is absolutely relevant to HMA, and secondly, is synonymous with the real-life Munich Hbf - so it seems really strange to now have such a station on HMA without those trains for example. Finally, German content timetable-wise is the best in TSW, every recent route that features a major station is very busy, and thus when compared to Munich Hbf from HMA and there's no comparison - it's also frustrating now when there are several suitable locos that now exist in TSW which should be there too (ICE 1, 101, 182 etc) - and as TSW is a simulator, these should be represented as per reality.

    Wow, that's stunning! Would have been nice if I had seen such a special livery.
     
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  22. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    Couldn’t agree more that it should be looked into the extent of upgrading the timetable/Ai services of HMA, I’ve long noticed how empty it seems especially at Hbf most of the time I’ve driven on the route.

    GWE and LIRR are the other 2 I would prioritise this attention to also, Joe The Fish has done some fantastic work Busying up Hamburg Hbf, would be great to see similar at Munich
     
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  23. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    Are you referring to Leipzig Hbf upper station ?

    If so I can’t see that happening, as the main station doesn’t really exist in game it’s just simple scenery, only a little bit more detailed than the San Francisco Skyline on Peninsula Corridor.
     
  24. archline

    archline Active Member

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    I'm in favor of updating HMA's timetable, but DTG has emphasized more than once that HMA has performance issues, and the lack of more layers in the console is a symptom of this problem.
    I personally believe that instead of asking DTG to upgrade timtable, it is recommended to have the special project team upgrade HMA, fix existing performance issues and upgrade timetable, just as a update of Boston Sprinter is currently underway(The BR420 being developed by TSG is for the HMA DLC, which can be a reason to upgrade HMA).
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2023
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  25. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You are spot on and for Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg Kassel Würzburg Autoreisezug (Motorail) it does run on Hauptstrecke München Augsburg 06:30 Augsburg Hbf München Hbf & 22:50 München Hbf 23:23 Augsburg Hbf this train is EN490/491 Hans Albers. Motorail is routed as Innsbruck Hbf München Hbf Würzburg Kassel Wilhelmshöhe Hannover Hamburg Altona
     

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