Time To Speculate On The New Uk Route

Whats wrong with electrostars? The benefit of reusing those really common uk units is, like i said in the last post:

A 3rd rail route which dtg is focusing on a interesting route instead of packing a new loco inside.

Thats why german routes are most improved in my opinion when it comes to sharing created content.

Tsw can have different models, selling a loco with a route was the way it got introduced.
If the content would come up to sandpatch standard, i wouldnt say anything, but to be hones past releases were affected of cuts in the routes & lack of quality in the supported locos.

So in my opinion its just the right time to take a different approach on this.

 

Difference is, ECW released December 2019, SEHS released January 2021 (13 months gap), LC released October 2021 (9 months after SE).
TVL released May 2019, DLGW released March 2021 (22 months).

And people do make a fuss about the 101 when it appears on new routes - it's just every route's been an EMU so there's been no fuss about the 101

 

Big difference - many german locos and trains are used across the country. Electrostars are used in only a small portion of the UK, almost exclusively commuter routes.

 

Thats very true, dtg created and upgraded those emus, so would be a waste to just leave them behind. Well different people & different tastes, but i enjoy them.

 

The 465 has success mostly because of how well it’s been produced, but the reason I primarily purchased it, was so that I had options for the CML commuter services, that weren’t Electrostar services, and of course there will be a lot of purchases because people just want a 465.

The original point I was making though was that it’s impossible to say that people prefer Southern region EMU routes over other Modern UK routes, because the majority of the routes are southern EMU based, you’re practically forced into them if you want Modern UK ops.

Im not in anyway saying we should never see another Southern region modern DLC, however we’re at the point now where they’ve been the main focus of UK DLC for far too long, and we really need to see something else.

It’s fair to say that the fleet of Electrostars, 465, 313 & 395 will provide great layer options in the future, however BML has already played that card for now, it’s time to move on to another Region and give us something new, not have another year of the same handful of trains returning over and over.

 

The 377and 387 are not the issue as such. I believe it's having more scope and less fear the next Uk route is not going to ship with another letterbox view train when there is so much variety.
The trains aren't bad, neither are they not enjoyable, but layer them in now, don't have them as the offered train

 

The main issue with Electrostars is that they are bland and boring. The traction noise is virtually non existent, they are so powerful there is no challenge getting up gradients. The brakes are so efficient you can probably stop on the mark if you hit the start of the platform doing 40 MPH (though I tend to drive like an old woman and approach stations at 15 MPH!) and of course that narrow limited forward view. Yes to some extent we are simulating what the trains are like in real life, but when I spend 45 or 60 minutes playing a game, I want to experience a bit of a thrill, a challenge, something different. That’s why I dislike the new MSFS due to the complete lack of older jetliners like the 727 or DC10 rather than the modern fly by wire stuff.

 

There has been a fuss made about the class 101, mainly when it was added to Great Western "Legends" as it isn't one and was out of place in context to what the pack was apparently trying to achieve.

To be fair to the class 101 it was widely used and has been seen in every BR region at some point (where as the Electrostars are limited to a certain part of the country) and it's appearance on the St Ives branch in the early 90's is not unrealistic and with the amount preserved it wouldn't be inconceivable for one to turn up on the WSR. In a backdated London to Brighton it could work the class 166 diagrams.

I don't think anyone would say no more Southern routes with Electrostars, but why not have a break from one for a few months. Personally I don't find them particularly fun to drive and I struggle to notice the difference between a class 387 and a 377 apart from the colour, although I find them nice looking trains! Having said that I am very much enjoying the London to Brighton route and the extra layers bring a bit more variety but it would be nice to have another train to drive a significant part of the route which isn't an Electrostar.

 

FWIW I would love to see something totally new, rather than a rehash of another ex-previous TS1 route.

There is so much of the UK that hasn’t been touched, the North particularly, that I never understand why people are always clamouring for stuff we’ve all seen before. There’s more to Northern England than Manchester to Liverpool!

Something totally new to Train Sim, set in the North with a new DMU (156 or 158 maybe?) would be great, with perhaps the 150/2 and some cargo adding layers.

 

Just to clarify, I fully respect those who like the Electrostars, they're not bad trains just not particularly fun to drive for some of us. So by all means keep offering third rail routes but at the same time consider adding a DLC pack of EPB's, VEP's, CIG/BIG, CEP/BEP maybe even the legendary REPs with 4TCs on an eventual route down to Bournemouth so we can enjoy the best of all eras.

 

I personaly hope dtg is going back to the br era either with reused stock or with new one.

Would make sense to have a bit more route variety away from the modern era, before going in with spirit of steam.

I agree on the fact compared to modern routes in the good old br era should be focused too. With west cornwall there are only 3 now.

"Diesel legends of the 70s" doesnt count.

 

I have nothing against Electrostars. I actually really like them, they're some of my favourite trains. It's just that I don't think I want to see ANOTHER one so soon after London Commuter.

I wouldn't be opposed if this new route had Electrostars as an additional train- not the flagship of the route, just an extra layer.

 

The Ayrshire Coastline may be one of the best routes in Scotland that would be a success in TSW - it's the perfect length, a good amount of stations, and has the wonderful 380.

The Inverclyde would take my own preference - being my personal home route - however Ayrshire takes an incredibly close Second.

Also, I think someone was attempting to make it on TS1, although I don't really think it went anywhere. Although, it may just be on hold.

 

I personally enjoy the Electrostars, however I believe we need a break from them.

They have 3 routes (ECW, SEHS and BML), two of which released this year - the only other UK route released this year by DTG was Cathcart Circle.

The Electrostars however do often feel bland after a while, and it's probably worth it to take a long break, and for dovetail to make some new stuff - our most recent unit which was "brand new" being the Class 314 (the 313 being modified from it).

 

I think Woodhead. It's been done enough times that there should be plenty of developer, route and asset knowledge. DTG seem to love Electric routes, but it also allows most of the current BR Blue diesel locomotives to be used and it even allows steam operation in the early electric era. It's also a good route to do for them because in terms of memory, lots of the route is in a tunnel and it's quite empty countryside in the middle so those bits are quite quick and easy to do.

 

Well, it's possible we'll see another GWR route, perhaps a South Devon Main Line or something similar. Maybe we'll also see our first ECML or WCML route, both of which would be amazing. As previously mentioned the introduction of tilting tecnology with the upcoming BR 612 makes seeing a pendolino more likely, increasing the chances of a WCML route. They've also said that DfT is a nice licensing partner, so LNER on a ECML route might be likely due to licensing. Still, there's a lot of options, and there's no telling.

I also think that the reason no route is on the roadmap is because DTG are either pushing themselves route lengthwise, or with the rolling stock. Though the theory that it has something to do with licensing agreements not going into effect yet is also quite possible.

Anyhow, as long as no solid info can be given, some old school teasers and easter eggs with hints would be absolutely fantastic, I really want to see that kind of hype again!

 

No it's not, they've said on stream they don't do stuff they haven't confirmed the licenses for. Any stock issues are gonna be purely down to development time, not licensing.

 

I meant that the licensing is round and signed, but that the agreement has a date from which it goes into effect which will be before release but was after the last roadmap. Though I do think this is the less likely of the theories.

 

Its not that people don’t like these route or Electrostars, but it’s about time we have something different, with a bit more variety in TSW.

There are so many other unused locations and trains TSW could benefit from. For example, we haven’t a route based in Wales, The Midlands or Anglia. Another Scottish or Northern route would be nice too.

Like others have said, I really hope this isn’t another third rail, Electrostar route, as it’s getting very repetitive now.

 

Thinking about what Matt said about why it's not on the roadmap, if he's to be believed (and I have no real reason not to believe him) and that it's because it may come out after Harlem, that's a real shame and can easily be solved by putting everything in alphabetical order.

If its because the rolling stock's not finalised, maybe don't announce the rolling stock when a route goes on the roadmap, and when the stock is finalised, add it to the entry. If the destinations aren't finalised then fair enough but I'd hope that'd be decided by now.

What I'm saying is, they don't need to give us all the information in one go.

 

The problem with this approach is they still can't win. If they announce a route with no locos or only the main part of a route then the speculation and demands will start. Then when they do announce the final route and locos it can't live up to the unrealistic expectations and everyone complains!

From DTG's point of view it's best to keep it all under wraps until it's confirmed even if it does keep us in the dark.

 

To be fair I think Wales or N.Ireland should get a route and get the UK represented. I've said before Cardiff - Didcot would be brill. Saying that having Birmingham or Crewe represented in game would be good imo. Loco's? I would love to see the mighty class 121 make an appearance. I think it was widely used and be fun to drive.

 

I've downloaded cathcart tonight and I couldn't help but hope for a route where it connects to it and layers in a shedload more services. Nice little route which I held off on for ages but needs some trains on it.

 

I’m really optimistic for a day coming where we have a properly busy Glasgow Central, with AI coming to and from the mainline, as we take our services around the circle or down the branches, with a couple of extra units for us to choose from in the form of a 380 & 385.

Cathcart really is a great little route with some awesome detail, it just needs the extra life, I hope DTG will come through on that for us.

 

I was going to say the same thing But I think it could come with Avante West Coast and overground with Southern and Baker Lou line as a layer.

 

I liked west Cornwall local

 

I will probably give it another go when the Easter sales come round. It’s a classic case of a TSW route just needing another 10 or 15 miles and another traction type to make it just right. As it stands really this should be on permanent sale at a lower price than the regular £24.99.

 

I would beg to differ. It really is an excellent self enclosed route. I think while it does require some more a'i if we get another Scottish route literally anything can layer on. 158, representing east Kilbride services, 185, representing services to Lanark, 180, representing substitutions on lines. 390, services to London etc You can't really add another 15 miles because there is nowhere to go to. I went on this line in late August and the attention to detail is amazing.

 

By adding more mileage, I know that isn’t going to happen but it should really have been done as a more expansive South Clyde network, similar to the bits we got in TS WCML North.

 

So did I, to be fair on rivet, however I have virtually no confidence they'd pull off a West Highland Line.

 

Yep, especially with the stunning unique scenery

 

On the matter of the comment mentioning a 319 (bearing in mind I haven't watched the stream myself) - this could form part of a Thameslink addon for London-Brighton. Bearing in mind my source is Wikipedia, there appears to be an 18 month period between February 2016 and August 2017 where TL 319s would have shared the tracks with GatEx 387s.

This might be if they're having trouble sourcing information or licenses for the Class 700.

If they were feeling like particularly generous gods, DTG could also include a Thameslink livery for the 387 and have them both perform the services.

I'm obviously just wishfully hypothesising at high speed here but it's something I'd pay for and would be better than just leaving the TL timetable empty on L2B if they're struggling with the 700 for whatever reason.

 

The problem with adding additional services to BML, is the danger of collapsing the timetable completely. It already gets stuck and fails to resume a save game, due to the level of traffic.

 

Thomson who are now Rivit did build the TS version

 

A timetable with just 5 trains on it would probably do that, hence why that issue has been known for years, not months. Also, there's clear gaps in the timetable for a Thameslink one to be slotted in (some of the GatEx services you can end up being very early because of it).

They also did (OK, in collaboration with Oovee) the original 150/2 for TS1 which is still really nice to drive, but look how that turned out in TSW

I also disagree, but where would those extensions be? One of CCL's main selling points is that it's an enclosed route, which is nice because you're not sitting around waiting for a train to come back if you're playing multiple services in a row; you can just drive the same train up and down as much you want. Anyway, where else would you go? The Paisley Canal Line? That's only abother 5 or 6 miles from the depot, any more extensions and you lose that self-enclosedness.
The existing route is 21 stations, and as has been said many times, it's the number of stations that eat up dev time, potentially more than track miles. If Bakerloo had released as a standalone route, I'm fairly confident it'd go out at the normal price. They only do the lower prices in special cases; Isle of Wight (which is less than 10 miles, and low service count) and West Somerset (also relatively short and low service count). I honestly don't see the need to lower the price for Cathcart, which while shorter than other routes, has hundreds of services.

As for the 319 - I think you're reading into it way too much, particularly if you know Moggy's background (I hope he won't mind me posting this); he used to work at East Croydon station, and thus worked with 319s, and he hates them. I just saw what Matt said as a throwaway jib at that. Remember, the 319 is in TS1 Now, IF it actually is a hint of upcoming content, it'll likely be BedPan, or a backdated WCML South (although I highly doubt it given they don't have the Virgin license); I think they'd much rather do a 700 for BML, and I think the route's set in 2018/19, after the 319s were moved on.

 

That's a fair point, however Thomson/Rivet's TS content was - on average - better than that on TSW. I say average because things like Glasgow Airport Rail Link exist.

 

When the first extensions is out, im sure players enjoy the benefits and ask for more. Its just a matter of time.

Why it has to be enclosed? Either they are or they arent. The giant benefit of a big scotrail network around glasgow wold be to have different timetables from 2008 - 2020 with different trains.
Now with brighton line and its amount of services a "filter" wouldnt be bad to see the time tables in the menu. So you could filter the services in each timetable. For example the cathcart runs, piseley canal runs, tour runs, freight runs etc..

 

I take it you're trying to pitch an extension to cathcart, with the paisley canal line.

No. The Paisley Canal line is probably the most boring, uneventful route in Scotland, and has nothing special. Also, the Paisley Canal Line and the Cathcart Circle Lines only meet at Central Station - and the Cathcart Circle is a self contained network outside Glasgow and Newton.

 

Thats my Point:




- People like just one enclosed section, well its available as single dlc.
- People like to have more, multiple dlcs would create the network.

Since there is no extension at all yet, realisticly i would start with a dlc, extending Scotrail with the East Kilbride & Paiseley canal Line + A.i Traffic.

Right now the Bottleneck for TSW seems to be the missing proper Rolling stock. Else potential extensions could be implemented in the development process.

 

Extensions won't happen, plus, the East Kilbride line (Contrary to that map) is part of the Glasgow Southwestern Line, so would be better to stick with it, and the Paisley Canal Line is literally THE worst route you could pick. It's boring, it's tedious to even ride on, the scenery is just schemes (Housing Schemes, and due to paisley's... erm... Deprivation, not very pleasant ones), a few shops and that, at least Cathcart's branches open up a bit.

 

What is this? I’ve seen it a few times on the forum recently and have no idea what it relates to.

 

Bedford to St Pancras (Midland Main Line)

 

Bedford to St Pancras. It was a derogatory term coined by the line's commuters in the early 80's prior to completion of the Midland Suburban Electrification project, when the Class 127 DMU's were on their last legs and long distance services were still Mk2 stock hauled by 45's and 47's.

 

ECML from Liverpool Street is gagging to be done, only one ancient rendition on TS in like a decade. Greater Anglia have some seriously sexy units and tbh it's about time they were done, presuming DTG can get the license of course. Also opens up the London Overground and TFL with their new power too. Plus some great City of London landmarks. This route could easily eclipse London-Brighton with added dlc.

 

The ECML runs from Kings Cross towards York and the north. I think you mean the GEML as in Great Eastern Main Line.

And if you're referring to the Flirts, talk to people who actually work the things. Godawful reliability, always having to be dragged away by a 37 back to depot.

GEML to me means Class 308's (or at least Dusty Bin 321's) with Stratford silver roofed 47's on the Norwich services, 31's and 37's on the Parkeston Quay boat trains etc.

 

Mostly correct.

AI At Glasgow would represent (and could layer from):
(Based on 2014, when Cathcart was set, and 2017-today (not much changed before then). 2017- is in italics.

• Inverclyde Line
  • 314, 380, 318, 320, 385
• Ayrshire Coast Line
  • 380
• Paisley Canal Line
  • 314, 380, (rare) 385
• Glasgow Southwestern Line
  • 156
• Edinburgh (via Carstairs)
  • 380, 385
• Edinburgh (Shotts Line)
  • 158, 156, 380, 385
• Lanark, Carstairs, Hamilton, Motherwell, Larkhall, Newton, Rutherglen (Argyle Line)
  • 320, 318, (rare) 334.
• VTWC/Avanti WC
  • 390
• CrossCountry
  • 220
• TPE
  • 350, 397
• VTEC/LNER
  • 91, 80x

Hard to compare Cathcart to WCML North, WCMLN is the WCML from Carlisle to Glasgow, and the Argyle Line from Carstairs/Larkhall/Lanark as far in as Glasgow Central LL. Both lines overlap constantly, whenever the Argyle isn't on a branch or a loop.

The Cathcart Circle is a self-contained line, with it's only overlaps being Glasgow - Pollockshields (Glasgow SW Line, and every other line at Central Station as far as the junctions), and the Argyle/WCML at Newton.

 

When they were first introduced, yes, but their reliability has significantly improved since then.

 

Yes I know. That's why I referred to it in part or supplementing what was done with Cathcart as in providing a proper network. I wasn't expecting all the way down to Carlisle but Lanark would have been nice. Anyhow all a bit academic now as the project is done. Best we can hope for is some extra stock, hopefully a 303 (would rebuy in a flash) but 318 or 320 also welcome.

 

I'd hope the only DLC we'd end up seeing is a backdates pack or something, holding the 318 or 320 to this route would be pointless.

 

Oh yes!! The good old days