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Tsw: “oh Canada!”

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    At the last count, 12 of those negative opinions were posted by you (on this thread), and they don't really count because you play TSW for barely 2 hours a month, because you said so. I think a lot of people who spend more time playing the game than writing on the forum will enjoy it.
     
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  2. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you 100% - if DTG had made it clear right from the original announcement, by showing a detailed zoom in of the southern section of the map, then I think that all this "very short route" malarkey would have been avoided. That area is fairly densely packed with content, including industrial buildings, etc.,and trackside infrastructure/furniture, .....aside from the remarkable extent of the layout - it's actually a network, of sorts. If all of that network of sidings can be used, then that's going to make a lot of people very happy.

    Also - if they have lit it up well, then it will probably look fabulous at night - but it will still look good anyway, because there appears to be a fairly hefty beam coming from the locos, so all of the very near trackside box-frames around the ethanol pipework, as just one example, will pick out very nicely in UE, at night, I'd imagine. It's almost claustrophobically packed with stuff - lots of hard work done there I think - really fabulous.

    The route looks really good. I am hoping that they tested it fully.

    Finally - I do hope that they have created some scenarios where you have to navigate your way around those southern sidings. There is potential here, in a future version of the game, to create some very challenging timed scenarios - say, to sort out a mixed manifest in the south, then drop it all off as you head north - but to a strict time limit (or timetable.....).
     
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  3. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    I had pre-ordered the DLC, but from what I saw on twitch last night, I requested reimbursement this morning.
    Everything is already seen. It's reheated.
    Still no functional level crossing with waiting vehicles.
    Really nothing innovative and like many scenarios, we get bored after a while.
     
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  4. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Um... and I can't believe that I am actually writing this... but I think that they might have undersold* how good the Oakville DLC is.....

    Anyone buying this DLC must surely know what they are getting - a freight route with a set of complex shunting yards. If people buy the route and complain that there is no passenger traffic, then that's more like self-inflicted whiplash than a backlash**, in my opinion....

    *with the exception of the ridiculous "countless industries" blurb

    **unless of course they have accidentally skipped the QA process again
     
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  5. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    No one should be "played" whatever their standing.

    When it was first announced I thought it was just a short route with some freight activities which was disappointing. If they had stated that it's purpose was a complex shunting/freight route then I would have said fair enough and not moaned about it!

    It will be the first route I doubt I will purchase as it doesn't appeal but I am sure it will for many and it certainly looks good. Of course I may change my mind when I see it in action.
     
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  6. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I have a sneaking suspicion that when people start posting night/snow screenshots, that there'll be a few people drawn in... The whole colour-space for this route looks bang on, and red/white/black locos, in snow, at night - squeezing long trains between gaps in buildings/roads/underpasses.... Really - it's a potential delight - for some people this will be immersion overload (in a good way).

    I need a few boxes ticked before I buy this route. First one is easy - I'd like to see the sounds fixed on the DB BR 155 on RSN - this is arguably the best loco on TSW (that I have seen), and it's a shocker that it hasn't been fixed, after such a long time.
     
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  7. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing wrong with a short route which is highly detailed and focuses on switching. It's good as it brings variety to the game. The issue is how DTG have gone about it.

    The current game mechanics don't really support switching as there are no car numbers or track names on the map, and the way the services are implemented means that every switching move is pre-planned, removing the challenge that switching usually presents. I'd like to have seen DTG make changes to the core in support of this DLC which would permit greater freedom whilst switching.

    The second issue is that DTG said that the route was short, but that was because of the attention to detail around the harbour area, which again would be fine, if it wasn't for the fact it's not true. Basic details such as the Canadian crossbucks on the many level crossing are missing, with incorrect assets being reused from previous DLCs. The same goes for the rollingstock, it's CSX branded instead of CN branded. The sounds on the GP9 are reused from Railworks and sound very poor compared to some of the other DLCs currently available for TSW, like the Class 31. So the attention to detail is lacking in many areas.

    The route is marketed as switching based with attention to detail rather than route length. It fails on both counts, which is what makes this DLC a weak one. If anything I think DTG have over sold it, as they have, in my opinion, failed to deliver on the two main selling points of the DLC.
     
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  8. zzw1983

    zzw1983 New Member

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    Anthony Wood of Oovee did the US sounds for TS. I dunno what happened to their relationship but continuing to work with him could have made all the difference. They could have made a deal with Searchlight Sims for their 645E sounds.
     
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  9. zzw1983

    zzw1983 New Member

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    I am looking forward to it myself simply because it's my neck of the woods. I spent many hours there fanning many years ago.
     
  10. zzw1983

    zzw1983 New Member

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    Those Gp9s are still around. I see them all the time though not as much as I used to. Gp9s in Canada are a dime a dozen.
     
  11. zzw1983

    zzw1983 New Member

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    I am very much looking forward to this and like an above commenter said, it was my first pre-purchase. If they indeed reused the 567 engine sounds from TS I will be satisfied because those sounds are pretty good in their own right.
     
  12. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I was so happy to see that they implemented a “Free roam” scenario similar to “New York switcher” on NEC. One of the scenarios gives us access to the whole southern yard with multiple warm and cold locomotives and lots of wagons to be able to do with what we see fit. I really like when they give us that freedom!
     
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  13. zane88

    zane88 Active Member

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    So that's his job .......hmmm ;)
     
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  14. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Aaaah, I see....! A better way for DTG to have gone about it would have been to have paid you £100,000 for a loco DLC, and then £5 commission for every DLC purchase. I have a funny feeling that then everything would have been fine.... Although I respect your knowledge, every time I see you write a post that is about DTG, I have to look at it through Draughtsman's Eyes. (BTW - when you write posts that help other users, that's truly helpful, and I do thank you for those).

    Map development aside (I agree with you on that, by the way) .....are you absolutely sure that there are no freight services that permit freedom in building/breaking manifests, in this DLC? Because this should be possible - all you need is for the story script to do a manifest check right at the end, although this might need to be a check that allows for permutations (or player frustration will result...). If you are right about this, because you have checked through 68 services, then fair enough - and that would be a bit of a missed opportunity.

    Hmmmm.... and maybe they used the wrong type of snow. And that part of Canada has different ground condition for the permafrost during summer/winter, and this hasn't been correctly modelled. And unit number 4501 has a teddy bear in the cab window - everybody knows that.....! Yes - I am sure that you can pick out details that you personally would have done differently.... for your £100,000.....

    I really do think that the route looks good. However, I would not call myself an expert. I have, however, worked with a very large number of railway experts - leaders in their fields - across the globe.... And, although I respect your knowledge, I can say that out of all the railway experts that I have worked with, that none of them would react in the way that you do, to something that really does look quite fabulous.

    Anyway, I think that there are two key tests that have to be met in the end. Does the DLC function as intended? Does it sell well? And to know the answer to both of those, we'll have to wait.
     
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  15. zane88

    zane88 Active Member

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    Man, I have to admit, I may have had a change of heart after watching the live stream.

    I was wise not to cast "Final Judgment" on this dlc before it was released lol.:D

    Matt addressed the short route length early on and said that the yard area would more than make up for that.

    HE WASN'T KIDDING.
    I was very pleased with not only the layout which I had never seen before, but also the sheer size of the dock area.

    My only concern now is how much of the dock area can we use?
    Will the services allow us the opportunity to work and explore the "Entire" track area, or will the
    " Invisible Wall" show its "ugly head". :mad:

    Unfortunately, DoveTail has a habbit of making areas on the map that "we" cannot explore.

    LARGE AREAS.

    .....MSB Anyone?

    If we can explore and work the "Entire Map" , specifically, the dock area, U Can Count Me In!!


    CANADA, Here I COME!!!


    .....maybe
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    And heaven forbid anyone should use the sounds they already have instead of flying a team thousands of miles to climb on top of a loco without the owner's permission to get a slightly better recording of the horn. The horror of it.
     
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  17. paulmurphy_88

    paulmurphy_88 Active Member

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    Honestly, what a pack of bloody whiners here, getting tired of it. Criticism is fine but this is just outright nitpicking. Nerd rage..
     
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  18. Xander1986

    Xander1986 New Member

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    Buy it or not but this disscusion brings nothing... There is a good way to see the product befor you can buy. Criticism is okay but this is a joke with people they are crying on a not realistic way. Please be a little bit more calm and wait until the product is released.

    Personal i like this addon! A small point is there is no AI traffic for the station but not a big deal. When you can add AI trains that would be great but i have choose this addon special for the yard trains. I like the way how you can use cars and bring them to the deliver points.
    Whe have here in Rotterdam also a large harbor train traffic with a lot off activity by trains.
     
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  19. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You will see freight cars from different railroads mix together all the time in real life.
     
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  20. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Searchlight Simulations refuses to work with DTG.
     
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  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Nearly every thread seems to be getting like it. The same few rehashing the same discussions.
     
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  22. Xander1986

    Xander1986 New Member

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    It's always the same indead! It brings nothing to spam this discussion with this sh*t.... There are a lot off game developers thoose show nothing and you pay 40 or 60€ and than the community are said. In this case i understand all people but DTG is verry loyal to the all users and show a lot off stuff before release but that's not enough with a lot off bizar reactions... Grow up please!
     
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  23. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    LOL
     
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  24. zane88

    zane88 Active Member

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    You're going overboard don't you think.

    Borderline comedy.
     
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  25. Xander1986

    Xander1986 New Member

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    "Borderline comedy" Why? I'm asking for a littlebit more repect nothing more...
     
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  26. zane88

    zane88 Active Member

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    From who?

    People who actually buy these dlcs have every right to express themselves just like you have every right
    to express yourself.

    Not sure where "Respect" comes into play.
     
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  27. ShodanCat

    ShodanCat Member

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    I haven't seen anyone here being disrespectful. All the criticisms (albeit based on pre-release information and media) have been honest and constructive.
     
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  28. Xander1986

    Xander1986 New Member

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    "Borderline comedy" This is a repectfull way to reacts to each other? You dind't know where i talk about it and directly you can see how this looks like. 2 reactions and directly an answer that answer your question.... How many post are needed? For me ist clear... i do not give any reaction here.
     
  29. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I said I think it will be a disaster, plus, that was my opinion.
     
  30. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, when I first saw the route I actually had some faith in it. When I saw that it was short I thought that it might be okay since the main focus was switching. Then I saw the hand-holding with switching and the garbage sounds. That totally turned me off from it and that's why I'm being negative. The negatives outweigh the positives for me, since I'm really picky about sounds, and I love the challenge in switching. I know I'm very pessimistic about TSW, it's just that all the recent releases don't interest me. I mean East Coastway is actually quite good, and I'll admit I was overreacting to the route length, but now I've learned to lower my standards a little. We may never have a route as good as NTP ever again, but I really just want something decent, and this new route really isn't that to me.
     
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  31. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Whoops, sorry for expressing my opinion there! Apparently since not everyone is allowed to speak about how they themselves feel, I guess I'll get banned from the forums forever.
     
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  32. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Active Member

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    Only got to play it for a couple of hours, but i think it's really good. Can see why you might not like it if you're not into freight and switching, but tbh there's no shortage of other passenger-centric routes out there, but especially for us console players this is the first real freight route.

    For me, personally, this is exactly the kind of route i've been looking for.
     
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  33. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    It's great to hear that some people like it. It really isn't what I'd wanna play but hey, if you really love freight I guess it can be good.
     
  34. solon

    solon Active Member

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    A first Canadian scene excited me. But seeing the content and watching the presentation stream yesterday, no, this is really reduced to a minimum of what DTG could offer us. I still prefer to buy the latest DLC from american truck simulator when I am more attracted to driving trains than trucks. But I know from experience that I will quickly get bored in this DLC once the only 5 scenarios are done.

    Which is a shame because the modeling of trains is still as excellent.
     
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  35. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    I think we can all agree to disagree here. If this route appeals to you then by all means purchase it; if it doesn't meet your expectations then save your money. Vote with your wallet.

    Both sides of this I feel have brought valid and well expressed arguments to explain their stance on this route. Are the low quality and recycled sounds unacceptable? Absolutely they are. Is the short mainline running length of the route made up for by the impressive scale of the industrial area? I'd say so in my opinion and we'll have to see just how much we can do there.

    Not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you and that's alright. Not everyone is going to like something you like and that's alright. If a dissenting opinion is presented in a respectful and thought out manner then it has a place and should not be shunned. There is room enough here for everyone with something thoughtful to say.
     
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  36. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The thing which lets a lot of DLC’s down is the core game of TSW.

    We have a barely functional 2D map which has no labels whatsoever. For a DLC like this, a map with labels is absolutely essential given how many lines and sidings there are. Having to use the floating labels whilst driving makes it seem arcade like and not very realistic.

    Another thing is the passenger loading system and NPC’s themselves. There are various bugs and issues with it.

    - NPC’s will just stand in one position lifeless
    - Passenger clothing doesn’t adopt to the weather conditions. Wearing a T-shirt in rainy weather for example
    - The passenger loading circle defaults at 30/60 seconds and then says wait until XXXX. It doesn’t adapt to the real time arrival and departure of your train.

    The skybox is just a mess and is incomplete. Add lighting and shadows to that.
     
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  37. 7orenz

    7orenz Active Member

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    CN001.jpg

    CN002.jpg
    CN003.jpg

    CN004.jpg

    CN005.jpg

    Welcome to Ontario/Niagara area. Vote 9. (Note: 9 with the next add-on pack)
     
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  38. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on the modelling. DTG does a very good job at modelling, you can't deny that. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about interior texturing and sounds.
     
  39. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I turn off the floating markers.
     
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  40. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    I do too, but how will you know how close the next objective is? When you turn off the distance marker it doesn't tell you anywhere else, does it?
     
  41. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it shows the distance up in the top left where your destination is.
     
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  42. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Oh it does? I should try that!
     
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  43. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Active Member

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    Definitely fair points here.

    No labels on the 2D map is mystifying to me, since they're obviously coded in the game- just doesn't seem like it would be that hard of a fix.

    The whole passenger NPC mess I've just resigned myself to, tbh. That doesn't excuse it, but it clearly isn't a priority for DTG, and I just keep to the cab view when I'm stopped at a station and try not to think about it lol.

    Skybox is another area that really needs work- honestly I don't think the lighting is that terrible if you have all clear skies, or totally overcast/raining/snowing, but any kind of partly-cloudy weather looks really garish. I also think we should be able to pick any day of the year in Timetable mode, rather than just the 4 default seasons, and have accurate sunrise/sunset and average temperatures based on the location of the route.
     
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  44. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    The NPCs are a total mess. I played LIRR today and there were a set of three NPCs at each door onboard the train, and they made a wall so that I couldn't move further down the train. I don't understand how this hasn't been fixed yet, it's absolutely mind-boggling.
     
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  45. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't change the facts, he tells us what Matt says. And we all know it.
     
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  46. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Which is quite useful since I never go on Discord where Matt actually seems to say all of these things. Why has this become such an issue for you?
     
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  47. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE
    If it's with giant industrial or harbor area like OSD I would not have a problem with 40 km route length. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  48. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    I agree these are all issues, have been raised in threads before, and I'm sure there's more you could add to that list as well. Hopefully, they're all on DTG's to-do-list. However, they're not showstoppers for me buying more DLC.

    The one thing that used to be a showstopper but has now been implemented is HEADSWAY. Back when I first played TSW (just with CSX: Heavy Haul) I stopped playing after a while because the cab view felt so ridiculously smooth and I couldn't stand it. Now that it's been implemented every route for me has been brought back to life. It can feel a bit over the top on some of the faster passenger routes but you can always disable it for those.

    On a side note to what you were saying, those passengers can sometimes be (unintentionally) hilarious. The number of twins I've seen or people wearing the same outfits but slightly different hair styles. None of that really worries me but it will be nice to see improvements in the future.
     
  49. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    lol, it's not an issue at all - i like the inside info - other peoples feeling are getting hurt when i mention it
     
  50. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    It's not petty little criticisms. A lot of the track around Hamilton isn't even accessible to the player, yet DTG advertise it as including 'numerous industries with miles of extensive rail yards.' They don't mention that the game boots you out when you try to explore these 'miles of extensive rail yards' in the single free roam scenario which allows you to explore them.
     
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