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West Coast Main Line South Improvements

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DTG Protagonist, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    As it stands today, the WCML has gone back in for a second pass as QA weren't happy with the update after it's first test. We will continue to keep you informed when we have more information.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
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  2. Aryffordd

    Aryffordd Member

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    I'm sure many will be disappointed that it's delayed a little longer, but thanks for the update, Nat. Far better for QA to pick up things now and have a chance to correct things than rush something out.
     
  3. Rob Jansen

    Rob Jansen Well-Known Member

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    Before the original release this should have gone through QA and back to the team, this is just a mess this release because of 'deadlines' but we will see what the future brings.

    But also, if the trainset is fixed this should be also applied to the Virgin Trains 390 Pendolino that people have in their library before it was taken off-sale as it is the same train.


    As for all the car talk, a moderator on this forum should clean out non-topic stuff as it breaks "Golden rule Nr. 2" (see forum rules here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/forum-rules-guidelines.4598/)
    Or split off all those posts not related to the WCML South to here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/forums/off-topic.40/
    (This should work in the Xenforo Software this site uses).
     
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  4. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Active Member

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    It probably DID, but too late that any issues raised had to be ignored.

    Given it's not on sale any more, it's probably out of support. A lot of companies seem do that, as soon as they stop shipping a product, or delivering a service, they generally go "not our problem" and ignore its existence. Also, given what happened to AP with VTEC a couple of years ago, I'd understand if DTG aren't willing to touch anything VT related even with a very long barge pole.
     
  5. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Both the Virgin and Avanti Class 390 units are the same apart from the livery - don't see a reason why they should not upload a fix for it.
    The Virgin version is formed correctly unlike the Avanti version

    Peter
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
  6. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Active Member

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    The VT 390 is Virgin branded. DTG no longer have a license for anything Virgin-related (even an unbranded livery), and given VTEC issued a cease & desist notice to AP for doing VT stuff a few years ago, I imagine DTG aren't too keen on touching it.
     
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  7. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between doing a model for release and doing a Fix to one model which affects another
     
  8. brummie

    brummie Member

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    Hi Peter, l for one would hope that both models would be fixed but until the patch or patches are released we won't know till then.
     
  9. guardupfront

    guardupfront Member

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    Thankyou for the heads up, the transparency is absolutely a good thing!
     
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  10. ChiefJackYT

    ChiefJackYT New Member

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    Any update on this before we go into the weekend? I’m aware it won’t be out until next week at the earliest, just wondered what the current status is. Thanks
     
  11. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    As Charlie Jolson from "The Getaway" would say "Don't be hasty son, All in good time" and I am applying my thinking like this to the update ;).
     
  12. ntypeman

    ntypeman Active Member

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    Can I ask what people's opinions are...??? My birthday is rapidly approaching & the good lady is asking me what I want... I'm pondering the deluxe version of TS21 but am I better getting it now or waiting until all the improvements have been rolled out & maybe getting it in a sale???

    Cheers

    Eric
     
  13. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    First, I'd say it is completely up to you.

    Secondly, there are improvements that are currently being made to improve the WCML-South route. So getting it now or later really is once again, completely up to you.

    Lastly, if it isn't a rush for you, perhaps waiting on a sale wouldn't be a bad idea, even though getting all that content is still a pretty good value, especially if you don't already have any of the listed dlc in the bundle.
     
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  14. BritishRail60062

    BritishRail60062 Member

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    Its entire up to you mate. If you need the fife route or the new three routes as well as WCML South then I would say get the deluxe version as DTG are working on an update. But that said, if you wanted to save some money and get more bang for your bucks. Maybe holding off until the next Steam sale might be a good idea as then you can not only get the new routes cheaper but you can also use the cash to buy other games and add-ons that you need. I do this every year. I save hard and then go crazy in the Steam sales :).
     
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  15. Forzaboy4

    Forzaboy4 Member

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    Did I hear that tomorrow is when the update releases? If so, I hope it delivers
     
  16. A Wilkinson

    A Wilkinson New Member

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    I hope you fix the Voyager because the camera doesnt tilt with the train meaning your in a fix position while the train is tilting around you, from the exterior the driving cars dont tilt with the middle coaches
     
  17. brummie

    brummie Member

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    I think that was a guesstimate
     
  18. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget the Sanguine, this thread taught me about words that I never knew existed.
     
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  19. Brucie-Magik

    Brucie-Magik New Member

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    Hello.

    I appreciate the team are still working on this, which is fantastic to see, however, we have not heard an update since Wednesday?

    thanks
     
  20. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps DTG should give you an update on when they will give the next update. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  21. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe DTG should release things of an acceptable standard in the first place and then there wouldn't be any issues.
     
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  22. Brucie-Magik

    Brucie-Magik New Member

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    Touché, Touché....
     
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  23. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely but why posts about how long ago, or when will the next update be. DTG will post it when they are ready
     
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  24. Forzaboy4

    Forzaboy4 Member

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    I have no idea if you have bought the game but this is a broken product on the market. If you have, maybe think about how some people payed good money for this, and if you haven't, then I have no idea why you would be even eligible to complain at people.
     
  25. Brucie-Magik

    Brucie-Magik New Member

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    I understand that, But let me say something.

    First of all, I'm behind DTG on this, My comment should not be seen as being unappreciative in any way. In fact I commend the fact that DTG are working hard to sort a resolution out for the quality issues of the product as we have been let down in the past over similar stuff. I'm also grateful to fellow members of our wider community who brought the issues to the fore front of DTG's Attention.

    I'm only asking about a further update for two reasons. One, there was a steady flow of input and updates earlier on in this thread. The gap between Wednesday and the present is probably the longest update gap we have had so far. It would be interesting to know what is going on. Is it still in QA? Is it now ready and we are just waiting for the download to be pushed out by steam? I think it's reasonable to politely ask what's going on for two reasons. 1) it shows how much the community cares about this 2) it means that the focus on remedying the product is at the fore front of DTG's processes and it makes sure it is not forgotten about.
     
  26. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    I am experienced enough to know not to buy on first release. On the threads about the WCMLS debacle I have been critical of DTG management in rushing its release. I feel your pain but it is pointless to keep asking when the next update will be.
    It will be when DTG are ready.
    EDIT. Brucie-Magik I appreciate your points but I'm sure after this, possibly the worst release disaster in DTG history, that they are entirely focused on putting it right.

    I can imagine DTG management putting their head round the door of the creative team office every ten minutes asking. "Is it ready yet?" To which the reply is unrepeatable here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  27. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    It will be ready when it's ready not an adequate response or attitude in regards to a product that has already been bought and paid for. In this case, people have been duped and paid for a subpar product, and have since been promised that it will be fixed. They are entitled to either the fix, or refund, and basic decent customer service would be to keep people updated. Nicely asking for an update after nearly a week since the last is not out of line.
     
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  28. tsarianchild

    tsarianchild Member

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    It would help everybody (including DTG) if they gave a simple update, even if it's along the lines of "QC found some problems, but it's taking longer than expected to fix them" or even in the new found spirit of openness, as a made up example "Our expert on frame rate optimisation is away on holiday/ill with covid/diverted to working on TSW2 (delete as appropriate)."

    Maybe the frame rates have been fixed and they're working on improving New Street and Euston Stations. Who knows? But without something hope fades.
     
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  29. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Those are my words not DTG. Yes I understand people are aggrieved, I would be too but what response can they give.
    Sorry we cannot give you an update because;

    We are still working on it and cannot give an accurate time forecast.

    It is in QC, they have raised issues and we cannot give an accurate time forecast on when we can fix it.

    If DTG say "We hope to have a patch by Wednesday." and due to some unforeseen reason they fail to do so there will be further customer disappointment.

    We'll give you an update as soon as we can. (Probably this one.)
     
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  30. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    We all know they are working on it, they aren't just going to forget it and hope it goes un-noticed.

    I would say it will be ready when it is ready is the only response they can give, if they promise something and then it slips there will be even more gnashing of teeth and cries of anguish on this page. And if they rush it out because people keep nagging them and there are still faults then you will all be even more angry.

    A bit of patience goes a long way, I am looking forward to it being fixed as I want to buy it, but I have dozens of other routes and two other train simulator to use.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  31. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I wonder when the update is likely to drop. I've been hanging on tight through this one, had a molar out, nursed dry socket for a fortnight and I'm finally about right again.

    Any sign, any news Sam? It's very nice that TSW2 gets a public roadmap, but where is the comms for Train Simulator?
     
  32. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    According to his profile, Sam is on holiday until 12th October, so don't expect anything from him for another week. Whether the other CM's will respond...
     
  33. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Dude deserves some downtime, but any comms would be hugely appreciated.
     
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  34. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So if DTG said "It's not fixed yet. we are still working on things" would that make any difference
    You all know they are working on fixing the problem so just wait.
     
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  35. tsarianchild

    tsarianchild Member

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    The problem is that we can't be sure they are working on it. They've committed to do things before and then not done them.
    Silence, especially after their previous commitment to provide a first fix within ten days, causes alarm and tends to damage their relationship with customers.
     
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  36. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    So if your car was in the garage and they said we're still working on things you'd just accept that, wouldn't want any sort of timescale and let them take as long as they wanted?

    I know, before you all start, it's not a car it's only a video game, but the principle is the same.

    People have paid for a product, regardless of what it is. It isn't functioning to an acceptable standard and they would like to know when they could hope to use it.
     
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  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well it would create an opportunity for more anger!
     
  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    And if they give a date and then don't manage to achieve it you will be the first on here slating them for promising a date and not keeping to it.

    We know they are working on it, they have said they are and have said there will be reparations, they could hardly ignore it considering the malcontent on the forums!
     
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  39. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If my car was in a garage being fixed I would expect them to keep me informed on when it was to be ready.
    I need the car for my wife and I to go shopping etc - without it we grind to a halt

    My life will not stop if I can not use a route in a train game
    I will go and play one of the other 107 routes I have on my system.

    This is software and it takes time to fix something as another problem might occur when fixing the first one.

    Is having it fixed this week or next week so important - you know the mechanics are working on the problem?

    Peter
     
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  40. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    As I said, same principle, you would expect an update so it's only reasonable to expect them to keep their customers updated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
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  41. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I'm not expecting much with Sam gone. In TSW2 the latest patch and preserved collection update came out on Wednesday last week. It was supposed to fix a bunch of bugs on some routes and on PS4 and XB1 it did...however something went wrong and the patch didn't actually apply on PC. There's a thread about it and in a week none of the other community managers have even bothered to pop in and say, "hey, we're aware, I've passed this along". Just complete silence.
     
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  42. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Dudes, the customer base definitely deserve updates. It's just good manners if nothing else.

    Manners cost nowt.
     
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  43. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    If they give a date which they can't keep to, as long as they provide an explanation, as they have been doing, that's fair enough.

    The issue would be, as they are doing now, apparently ignoring their customers after the projected timescale has passed by.
     
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  44. Forzaboy4

    Forzaboy4 Member

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    Here here
     
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  45. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    The setting of high expectations very much easily sets one up for disappointment. Oddly enough, if nothing else teaches you that. This company will.

    In addition to what's been said. When you've spent quite a bit of time following and observing this company, you learn more and more about what to expect. And may stick around, but support them with your wallet, with extreme discretion. Now although the announcement of 2021 came a little over a week before the route, noticed that there was no stream showcasing it, although I hadn't thought about it until after the release, there now seems to be a reason it wasn't.

    I could be wrong... But usually, based on my own observations, they only showcase something they're most confident about. And it wasn't showcased until the day it released. After many of us already had the mind to buy it just off the strength of the route itself, while few probably had reservations, and a bit skeptic. Likely there might have been other factors, like those ridiculous internal deadlines they adhere to. Or less than optimal management and how they allocate their time and resources to get each project done. But there needs to be a bit of restructuring. Or maybe there may be some weak links within the teams behind the stuff being made, which is a very real possibility. Because no matter the image this company does try to put out there for the consumers, there are still very real everyday people, with their own questionable demeanor, personality, work ethics that may affect the quality of the product being pushed out. That could be due in part to the circumstances each individual is facing, dealing with, or it is just simply character flaws.

    This year has been from my perspective, less than stellar for a lot of people, due to what is going on in the world, and certainly this for company. A lot of questionable things have transpired, and it shows through the way they've communicated, and through the effort displayed through their content. We can only hope there is a genuine need in wanting to improve on those things if they want to continue doing business.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
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  46. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Question to those who are complaining about the lack of updates.
    Why do you think that DTG are not giving updates?
     
  47. TimeSlicedDanny

    TimeSlicedDanny Member

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    Because they've given up on fixing it and are content to live with another subprime release?
     
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  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Evidence?
     
  49. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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  50. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    At the moment their argument is as good as yours.

    Until something appears, neither of you has any evidence that it's being worked on or not. Just because they say they are counts for nothing at this point until we see some evidence in the form of a fixed product.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
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