PC West Cornwall Local: Penzance - St. Austell & St Ives - The Definitive Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Why blame DTG? It's Rivet's product.
    Even at that, you can't blame rivet, it's obviously licensing. And clearly rivet have been working on it a while (it was leaked when Luzern came out) so they had to either scrap it or debrand it. I think they chose the best one.
     
  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    But DTG approve it for sale on their platform.
    The point also being that DTG know full well what a half finished/poor quality mess much of the existing content is in with no real plan or even inclination to fix it. The best incentive they could give right now on behalf of the paying customer is to tell Rivet we are not selling any more of your product until you get the fixes sorted.
     
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  3. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    The post you had replied to was about the livery, I replied in that context. We can't say there's anything to be fixed in terms of physics and sounds until we see a preview, in it's release state, at minimum.

    The license for Island Line/SWR clearly isn't on the table. Rivet have said they tried to get it. And considering we've never seen SWR in any TS/TSW release, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a flat out "no" from them.

    I don't see why people are getting upset over the livery. Yes, it looks horrible, but there isn't much else they can do. Livery Designer and Creators Club are only a few clicks away to sort that.

    As for sounds and physics, we should wait and see. As for fixes on previous DLCs, they have said now that fixes will be coming for IOW and (I think) Luzern - Sursee.

    People bashed Skyhook for Cane Creek and the 187. They turned it around with HSC. Why don't we give the 484 a chance?

    Howdver
     
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  4. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I've made a separate thread based on the 150 sound/physics speculation.

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...rmed-by-jasper-on-roadmap-stream-query.56339/

    I think it would be healthy to bring out the best in this, especially as we most likely won't receive what we had hoped for. I want to badly credit Rivet because the model is fantastic but it has been such a crap 6 months of avoiding playing WCL due to how the 150 performed and spotting Class 40's in Penzance where they never ran in active service :)
     
  5. Jasper_Rivet

    Jasper_Rivet Well-Known Member

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    So - I need to ask a few questions. :) It sounds like all our products are basically unplayable. Like broken broken and you can't actually play them.

    • IoW - what's exactly broken on here?
    • Arosa - we communitcated very clearly, that we spend the perfomance budget on the near distance scenery, because we thought that people would prefer that (rather than having a sparse near & a bit denser far distant scenery). We had a look at it internally, but reworking it is essentially rebuilding the route. So we did the best we could, we learned from it for future routes.
    • WCL - Update is in the works, see the thread you linked above. Again, it's totally playable, we had many comments telling us they really enjoyed the route.
    • LZN - Updates are with Dovetails QA, a fix for the "Dispatch Beyond" functionality (as well as some ETCS fixes) were out roughly a week after launch.
    • Island Line - not released yet, let's wait until it's live before making any guesses, alright?

    I'm not trying to win everyone, that's impossible. And I understand that it's nearly impossible to satisfy someone who worked on the 150s - but we're working on it.
     
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  6. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Jasper, I am not going to say anymore about WCL other than, I am pleased to hear there’s an update in the process and hope you sort out the missing and poor WCL scenery issues. I would be happy to pay for the update providing you make WCL look more real than fictional as it looks now. Here’s hoping.

    Happy to pay for the iow update and hope the route looks better this time around.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
  7. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    Rivet hello! "The one who does nothing makes no mistakes." Rivet thank you for your work. It is impossible to please everyone, as there are no DLS to which there are no comments. A great person is one who wants to help everyone who needs his help. I wish you good luck in your creative process and look forward to new works from you. I am delighted with your rolling stock models.
     
  8. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    You clearly have not been on a 150/2 then !!!
     
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  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    My old dad had a saying, “Some people are easily entertained…”
     
  10. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate your replay Jasper, just for clarity, I haven’t suggested anything is “unplayable” however it prompted engagement so it’s served its cause. I think the concern many have is the time (or perception rivet bury their head in sand ) when delivering fixes. Iow is an example, hence my question.

    Arosa, again here, months of people asking and I do retain the hype around the fixes was to help sales of the 50yr livery and the Xmas pack. I don’t think it would have been recieved the same otherwise. Incidentally, talking of performance, are you saying in a roundabout way this was to help lower spec devices (reason below)

    WCL I bought, didn’t mind it to be fair and I’m pleased the 150 is being looked at. The reason I question lower devices as there is mod that introduces a significant amount of foliage on this route and it transformed it for the better with minimal hit on performance.

    LZN, I nearly bought this yesterday but it’s the first route in the region and I like variety so I’m hanging fire there for now. No negative feedback.

    New Iow , I’ve looked and I’m intrigued but again a quiet route.


    So, for clarity, I’m not saying unplayable.

    The takeaway feedback is there is a perception at times that Rivet only engage with their customers at point of sale. There was a lot of people offering support to help you with WCL upon it being delayed and a lot of exacerbated people when it still released with things fed backpack that “appeared “ to not even be acknowledged. It can also appear that radio silence is burying head in sands (on your forums and here). Communication is king, your customers judge you on this and your last rodeo.

    Whether people agree or disagree is perfectly fine but either side of the coin something drives the feedback.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
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  11. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    I argued that they made a great model. I admit that the physics is not implemented correctly, the sounds need to be improved. But the team says they are working on fixes. They want to achieve a result that would suit us. This desire must be encouraged.
    You must agree with me that there are other locomotives produced that suffer from the same shortcomings, somewhere less, somewhere more.
    I don't think we'd be better off if Rivet didn't release expansions.

    I am sure that the team is gaining experience and wants to please us with their work. My expectations are that each new team project will be of a higher level.
     
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  12. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    oh absolutely the 150 is just incredible to look at. So much potential to be a great unit.
     
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The strange thing is, when you look at what Rivet and their Thomson predecessor achieved with the TSC Swiss routes, they are capable of great things. I'm currently taking a little TSC Swiss "holiday" and have travelled down from Arosa to Chur, got the bus replacement (!) out to Thusis for the Albula Line and now screeching and grinding my way to Poschiavo on the Bernina Line (though I haven't got round to buying Part 2 into Tirano yet, or the Disentis and Scuol lines for that matter). As someone who has dabbled in the TSC editor from time to time, I accept the limitations on the distant mountains as the palette and painting techniques/mesh isn't versatile enough but everything else is great.

    Do I have a point here? Well yes. It seems UK routes and traction are going outside Rivet's comfort zone so maybe they should go back to focusing on what they do best and that's bringing part of Switzerland and the RhB in particular into TSW.
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that Arosa drew its share of complaints! The issue here isn't that it's the UK which is outside Rivet's comfort zone (their contributions to Glasgow were great), rather it's the much more challenging programming environment of TSW. (Also, Rivet still apparently have yet to figure out diesels).
     
  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I have yet to buy and keep Arosa...
    I suspect part of that was down to the initial learning curve, firstly as regards the editor and it does seem TSW does struggle with distant mountains even more than TSC (though not as badly as the Run 8 attempt at mountains on Donner). Then coding physics into Simugraph. To some extent they had it easy with the Swiss electrics as most, at least as represented in the game, seem to use some sort of speed control rather than skilled management of the throttle by the driver. Come to think of it the acceleration is a bit rapid whether the GE 4/4 III locos on Albula or the railcars on Arosa and Bernina. But it still seems better than their physics work in TSW.
     
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  16. Jasper_Rivet

    Jasper_Rivet Well-Known Member

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  17. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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  18. spicemaster

    spicemaster Member

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    I think alot of the negative comments, especially about WCL came from when a representitive from Rivet, could of been you or someone else, said that no fixes were going to be done to the 150 or WCL, that really rubbed people up the wrong way.
    The fact that it didn't even sound like a 150 was a big problem that people, many people had. It was spoken about in quite detail actually.
    Yes so because of the comments on that stream, i refunded my purchase.
     
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  19. Jasper_Rivet

    Jasper_Rivet Well-Known Member

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    I can see why - but we figured it would be better to do things and then announce them. We though that's only fair. :)
     
  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Has this been released?
     
  21. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Noooooo don’t be silly. It has only been 9 months since initial release and two months since the updates announcement. Armstrong Powerhouse work on a time zone of days to weeks to fix stuff, Rivet fixes things in decades to centuries.

    Sit tight. It’ll be released by 2089
     
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  22. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    ;)

    Unfortunately i was hoping for a fast update, which fixes the major bugs on iow2022.

    Not working mastery and collectables is a pain in the hss....
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
  23. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind there's no been update since TSW3 was announced So even if Rivet have addressed the bugs it'll be in the queue along with the 187 and a whole raft of other fixes.
     
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  24. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we all need to buy tsw3 to unlock the update for tsw2

    The buy one get one free ethos is now buy twice receive an update
     
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  25. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I will not be buying TSW3 - fed up with recycled releases. A brand new game should have brand new content.
     
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  26. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    Such as two new routes, a substantially extended and upgraded existing route, new lighting model and new training centre?
     
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  27. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    I hope that WCL will get a complete overhaul for TSW3, as I have said before, it is the worst route on scenery recreation in TSW2 and nothing has been done to correct it, but that probably won’t happen with makes it still completely laughable that they called it West Cornwall when it looks nothing like the area apart from the stations and locomotive used!!! It should be renamed West Corny!!!
     
  28. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    I have to confess, I pretty much enjoy this route, its locos, scenarios and its services. But probably also for the reason that I´m completely ignorant regarding the authenticity of the surroundings. I´ve never been there (but that´s something I probably share with 90% of the users) I DID notice though, that most designing efforts have gone into the stations, while the countryside counts with a mix of stock buildings and facilities. Example is the Truro Cathedral which seems to be three intertwined typical english churches from the Tudor era. Yet, it´s fun to ride. Also counting with the branch line from St. Erth to St.Ives. Cool! Call it "West Corny" but I like it.
     
  29. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Active Member

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    Maybe this is why the passengers look so miserable.
    Maybe Rivet sourced the images of early 90's Cornwall from archived holiday pages on Ceefax because that's all they could find.
    :cool:
     
  30. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    St Ives hasn’t changed since 1954 when I first lived there and Rivet effort is purely fictional or based on the 1700s
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  31. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I want to buy this route but bad reviews have prevented it so far. Can anyone tell me if the patch Rivet was working on has been released? It's been half a year since Jasper announced it but I haven't seen any subsequent posts about it.
    From the Rivet forum:
    IMG_20230108_102947.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2023
  32. shimarin

    shimarin Active Member

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  33. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I've been playing it the last couple of evenings and there is still much wrong with it.

    The route itself really does look like a freeware project that someone lost interest in and decided to put out "as is", after going through the open countryside and planting trees everywhere. The other issues such as the odd level crossings, no whistle posts etc. are well documented. Though you can add to that Rivet don't understand how absolute block signalling works. At both Truro and St Erth on the Down, I've been brought in with the distant signal "off" but the section or starter signal on the end of the platform is held at danger until station duties are finished. On the real railway that's known as a wrong side failure.

    The default 150 sounds and physics are still awful, the mod helps a bit but there's only so much that can be done to polish a turd. It is impossible to keep time now as the unit has no hill climbing power, went from being way overpowered to way underpowered. Seems Rivet have very little understanding how to use Simugraph and were too proud or stubborn to ask the experts at DTG for help.

    As I mentioned in the thread about their forthcoming Scottish route, Rivet do seem to be able to set up interesting scenarios or Journey elements, albeit not always 100% prototypical. A Down Penzance service would be unlikely to terminate at St Erth then cross over to form a service to St Ives in reality, nor would the driver then make a one way trip to St Ives!

    This route had massive potential, still does if Rivet were prepared to go back in, extend it a bit more maybe to Plymouth or at least to Liskeard and put in the rest of the branches. A network like that we could forgive a bit of inaccuracy especially if we got HST's to represent the GW and XC main line services. But stopping at St Austell which is not a significant operational location was just dumb, should have at least gone to Par.

    However I suspect like so many of the routes in TSW, Rivet have followed suite from DTG, decided it's achieved the desired sales and drawn a line under it,
     
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  35. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    If you do buy it you will own the worst route ever made for TSW Save your money unless you want a fictional route as it doesn’t do justice to West Cornwall with many scenic features missed out. I agree with everything OV has said in the previous post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2023
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  36. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    It’s a DLC I will not be buying until it sees (if ever/unlikely) some major upgrades. This was definitely rushed out. The IoW 2022 DLC from Rivet was much much better in terms of quality. I have high hopes for their Scottish Route.
     

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