General Discussion Is Gone

Tragic

 

I don't even think it will do that, other places exist for discussion, and as much as I see a select few complain about how toxic the place is. Honestly compared to most other forums (Talking gaming general, not just trains) I keep tabs on this place is very friendly to DTG. Ironically them worsening the forum could result in other places gaining traction with a far more critical outlook. Heck, even going on their social media I've seen some really nasty Facebook & X replies on DTG stuff the few times I've checked.

 

What a very poor decision. So basically suppressing any discussion of the game which doesn’t relate directly to product feedback or troubleshooting. I mean, I can understand a bit of consolidation and removing forums for the dead products, but this is not a good first step if they want to start trying to sell us TSW7 in a few weeks time.

Are we saying that TSW is in such a poor state, rather than fix the game DTG would rather remove any part of the forum where a no strings, but constructive and respectful, discussion of that can be undertaken for fear it puts off potential buyers? £££$$$€€€ rolling in more important than offering a quality product? If it wasn’t for the fact I’ve spent so much money on it, I really do feel like kicking the game off my HD and hiding it in Steam.

Not just the Awesome Services thread, but good and entertaining threads like the Monthly Mastery where we review the challenges, compare what might be stuck and see who gets it done first. Which forum area do we now use for that, dtg_jan ?

If anything should be removed, it’s the Suggestion forum. Riddled with poorly presented, duplicated or not a chance in hell of ever happening ideas. Very few actual DLC have spawned as a result of posts in there.

So if the forums are being condensed to a tightly controlled pipeline, what exactly does that achieve or are the CM’s who double up as moderators being reduced in number?

 

Well there's your proof that DTG are pretty much the enemy, welcome to North Korea.

Most of us on here are here because we don't use Discord for various reasons, if DTG are paying people to act as moderators and they are unable to moderate a simple run-of-the-mill web forum then maybe DTG should be doublechecking those CV's.

 

Well said Vern

 

Yes, I think this is a big motivation - hide the criticism behind a platform that can't be searched.

I've used Discord but ultimately deleted my account. It's a chat room, not a discussion forum, and I won't be going back to it. This forum can be very toxic at times which limits my desire to interact with people here, but the decision to kill-off the most popular part of the forum is the stupidest thing I've seen DTG do.

 

My thoughts exactly, imagine if the TrainSimCommunity website opened up a forum, most folks would migrate over to there and DTG would have no say in what posts are moderated/censored/deleted.

Heck, I've got a website, might just open up a forum on there...

 

Wierd that the TSC general discussion isn't going anywhere...

 

Mind not the first time we have seen this sort of thing… I remember when Run 8 came out in its very first iteration. 3DTS/R8 Studios set up their own forum but were parochial to the point of hysteria about what could and couldn’t be posted there. Mention of or comparison to other train sim products resulted in a ban and posting anything other than positive feedback was discouraged. Eventually the forum shut down as either no one was left or started using Trainsim dot com or The Depot instead. Railworks America was another instance of the heavy handed approach which alienated more than a few users.

And as others have stated, this place is a pussycat parlour compared to other places. If you’ve ventured into Speakers Corner at Overclockers UK or used the official Elite Dangerous forums - that’s real salt.

 

Don’t give them ideas, though given the neglected state of TSC the managers and execs who came up with this bizarre decision probably don’t even realise it’s a DTG product!

 

Well it's been fun and informative chatting to you folks, i wish you all the best, as for DTG be careful chewing, going to be a bit of a chore with both your feet in there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if DTG are doing this to get rid of some of the less positive threads, like the Enough is Enough thread...

A very bad move by the community team, using a bad excuse (loads of forums use ZenForo and have no issues moderating them) with a net negative impact on the community. The closest thing now is the ATS Facebook group, but even that has a distinct lack of brain cells.

 

There’s also Train Sim Community on Facebook and I even saw a post from Matt P in there the other day. Also the official DTG TSW FB page. However just like Discord, Facebook doesn’t really support an ongoing, sequential discussion. You’ll get a post, a bit of chat then it dies away to be replaced by the next hot topic.

 

This may be the most brain dead decision I've seen ever, and I'm a Manchester United supporter!

 

I'm in the TSW Community Facebook group but can't take it seriously. I might sound elitist for saying this, but there are so many braindead posts on there that I feel like I'm losing brain matter every time a post from there pops up on my feed. The DTG Forum is easily the best place to talk about TS and TSW, and its relative obscurity works as an anti-idiot filter of sorts. (I still got through though )

 

Please delete my account. I understand only DTG can do this.

Bye

 

What on earth gave you the impression that DTG ‘values community contribution’?…they NEVER have done and NEVER will.

 

This - I'm feeling this more and more tbh

 

i think this quote says it best "Stupid is as Stupid does" DTG seem to be hell bent on destroying the remaining goodwill the community has for them, the only other company/community i can think that has tried this same move is CCP, and "they" know exactly how that turned out, i truly hope somebody with even an ounce of sense gets in there to help them before the staff start to suffer as these things only ever end one way.

 

This will be extremely sad. One of the things I liked about the forum was that I could find the problem on Google. Maybe someone else had already solved it. I have absolutely no idea what will happen now.

 

M

More work for the CM’s? They do virtually nothing in these Forums at all unless some ‘snowflake’ gets upset and complains and then the OP ends up with a ban!

 

So I guess the easiest option is to just open a thread called ‘General Discussion’ within Feedback or Troubleshooting?

 

I honestly don't think DTG has got a lot of goodwill left these days - both the consoles are struggling in various ways. The third parties must be frustrated at the time it takes for fixes to be turned around.

Even some of the ambassadors are expressing frustration these days.

While I often feel some of the comments here are a bit over the top for a game, I haven't got a lot of goodwill towards them myself.

 

What is the point of that ?. This forum is still alive and kicking. I could understand if it was dying off or something but plenty discussion is still going on here everyday… looks like they’re trying to encourage everyone to get over to Discord. I don’t have Discord I’ve never used it before lol.

This is just needlessly pulling the plug on something that is doing just fine.

 

One of the worst ideas by DTG in awhile. I have no plans on using Discord which is a terrible platform for the user. However, it's "private" (members only) and doesn't appear on Google, so that's why many gaming companies move to it. It's not about the "audience" it's about control of the messaging.

The ability to control who can start a thread means you can steer conversations from the beginning. It's no longer about what the players want to talk about, it's only what DTG wants to talk about. Then if an uncomfortable topic is brought up, it can be deleted as "off topic."

What isn't talked about then doesn't exist.

This saddens me greatly, just when several third parties were becoming more transparent and approachable (like JT) Instead of following up on that which was very popular, this is a move in the opposite direction towards exclusivity.

 

They are slowly killing the game (certainly the console version) and now they are starting to kill the forum

 

This is a VERY bad move DTG. I think the feelings towards this are very clear in this thread
You can gloss this up however you like, but it comes across as straight up censorship. Not all of us want to talk about a specific DLC release but the game in GENERAL.

Please re-think this decision

 

I fear that would be no better than discord, chaotic and impossibly difficult to follow meaningful conversations. Discord in my experience is a big step back on the evolutionary road of community discussion, nothing can replace well-organised forums.

 

I don't think closing the general discussion subforum is the way to go. Let me explain:

I do acknowledge there is a quota of threads running off their topics here. That sometimes happens with discussions. Moderation would easily fix that.

There are threads that go nowhere. That sometimes happens with discussions. A moderator could close them before they'll get continued with spam or start to spiral into on online-stoning.

There are users who don't always follow the forum rules. That happens on all forums, always has been. Moderators stepping in and talking to those users before they're able to do harm would be helpful.
Yes, sometimes talking turns out to be fruitless. A moderator could take actions like timeouts and bans.

There are several duplicate threads. That will happen when people either don't read before opening a new thread or original posters not naming their threads appropriately so one could easily miss it or it might be language barriers, vague terminology so search attempts don't turn out succsessful because someone searched for "power handle" instead of "throttle" and therefore missed the thread with the soultion to their problem.
A better seach function could be helpful to prevent double threads in the first place.

Granted, there will always be people who won't use their brain to do even one search or scroll to page 2 of a forum. A moderator could move budding double threads into one before they spiral out of hand.

It seems to me, what the forum needs are more moderators. When the user base grows, the number of staff has to grow with it to keep funtioning.

Lastly I agree with all the people who pointed out the double moral here and I'd like to make that my closing point:

DTG is producing multiple threads on the same topics on a regular basis. From the "Coming soon" announcement article via the "Out now" article and lastly the feedback thread. The feedback one is a different one from the discussion ones, I totally agree. There is discussion happening on the "Coming soon" article, as always, and there's discussion happening on the "Out now" article, as always.

Problem is, discussion doesn't just move from the "Coming soon" one to "Out now" naturally. People keep posting in the first one for weeks sometimes after the related product is out. People also post feedback there, which is a user issue, yes, but it'd be preventable.

People also want to discuss the product before and after it's out without it being feedback posts. Where should those go? Into "Coming soon" or "Out now", which are both inappropriate threads to discuss a product after its launch?

Or if people want to discuss issues that affect one aspect of the base game or a trait multiple DLC have? They'd land in Troubleshooting where they don't belong.

How the forum would like to be used after the change in my eyes is: Got a problem with a product? Post it.

Want to discuss anything product-related without having a problem: Go away, there's no right place for that nonsense here.

If you want your community to have a space to properly interact with you and your products and people to follow the rules, hire moderators and don't try to replace them with AI, that never works out in either party's favour.

 

What absolute nonsense.

since the game first released, the forums have been up there with communication.

We have a right to discuss what is going on with the game, we have a right to share our views and opinions on what is going on with this game.

While the general discussion side of TSW can at times be tense, and grilling for DTG, many developers rely on general discussion to communicate with the community in various aspects.

the removal of general speaking on the game is totally ridiculous. The general area of the forums have held many many important things for the community.

and despite all this, DTG are now choosing to remove it, it’s ridiculous.

Why are they removing it now? Do they know what they’re developing could spark anger? general has been around for years, and now you want to remove the most important communication tool in the community??

I advocate for tougher forum moderation, I do not mind a rework and tweak of the forums, but this decision of removing any form of general discussion about the game is not the right answer

I urge this to please be reconsidered.


#keepgeneralspeaking

 

LOL i wonder if we can get DTG to make a review bomb skin for the class 66 like helldivers did with their cape

 

It's not a bad idea. Won't be much official feedback per se, but a private forum would allow the community to vent easier. The issue would be do you want to do the moderation? Although I'm guessing a few here might be willing to moderate.

I don't think DTG realizes just how much of being a "community" involves letting the "community" speak freely. Most of the content doesn't directly involve DTG. It's not directed at them. It's between forum members such as "which of these routes should I buy?" or "Has anyone else noticed this thing?"

NONE of that interchange of players as a "community" happens if it's top-down directed. It's like having a "village" where no one is allowed to speak to their neighbors and ONLY allowed to speak to the mayor when the mayor decides they can speak.

If that's not censorship, then what is it?

It's surely not a "community" in the traditional sense of the word, which is a HUGE part of why I got involved in TSW. It was the community, not just the game. I would NOT have stayed long if it was JUST the game itself in a vacuum.

This community is why it remains interesting to me. I'm not threatening anything. No boycott or the "I'm gonna leave!" drama. I'm just stating a fact. I myself would find much less reason to keep involved in the game and purchase new content without the community interaction.

It would just be much less "fun." The game itself is... an okay simulator. However, without the other forum members to share it with and talk to, it would be very sterile and empty.

No, Discord is not a replacement. It's another controlled environment, with the added disincentive that it's the Discord platform. It is not nearly as open and accessible either in atmosphere or practicality.

I can search for past threads here for example. I can post exactly what I want for the question I have. When I have an issue I can post and SOMEONE will usually post a response quickly, good or bad. It's organized better for FINDING useful information, not just memes. In short, there's more depth and community. A community that (until now) has been very lightly moderated and spontaneous. When I find something interesting I can find and share it.

I look forward to seeing what OldVern, or dal or Crosstie will say about something. It's getting to know those people and having an easy to navigate, user friendly forum that you can ADD to, not just speak BACK TO. It makes all the difference.

Take this route at your own peril, DTG. Again, I'm not "threatening" anything. I may pop on rarely for new content release info, but I don't see much reason to stay. I don't think I'll buy as much without this forum either since there would be fewer people to share experiences with and that "community" would be absent. It wouldn't be a dedicated "boycott" or anything, just a drifting away to other games and communities that offer more interaction and inclusion.

I hope DTG reads this and has their "Bud Light" or "New Coke" moment and realizes just how colossally bad this idea is, learns from it and embraces what makes TSW special. Failing that, I'd offer to help with a new forum that would serve the same purpose set up somewhere else. I really enjoy the community here and it's one of the things that make TSW special to me, even if the leadership doesn't seem to appreciate what they have.

 

This seems like a questionable idea. Maybe it's to avoid the inevitable criticism when TSW7 is announced and released with more half-baked "features."

 

So where do the following threads go in this Brave New World?

• Connected Journey Ideas
  
• Blackpool Branches New Timetable
  
• Monthly Masteries

...to pick just a few off the front page of General Discussion.

 

I agree with everything you said, but this in particular. Users have created duplication by opening multiple threads on the same thing (did we really need this Crewe to Preston thread to go with all the others, or this mastery thread when there's an existing thread on the subject?), but instead of merging threads and tidying the place up, the whole forum is being taken away.

 

either way, this act of silencing will NOT deter me from posting what I feel about the game, this act of silence will NOT stop me from saying how I feel about the state of the game.

I will still continue to post my views about how things are, even if I risk being banned.

 

What a nonsensical decision.

I can’t decide what’s more bizarre, the person who came up with the idea, or the people that backed it. Who on earth comes up with ‘let’s delete the general conversation area for our game’?

It can’t be for the sake of moderation, the workload will go through the roof when things inevitably get posted in the wrong sub-forum & thus need tidying.

Suppression of criticism? Maybe it’s this but this decision is going to sorely backfire as closing official discussion areas has never gone well on the PR front, it’s only going to compound negative reviews in the places they really matter: the storefronts.

The only thing that makes sense & will have the desired outcome, is they want to have a specific community when it comes to TSW. People who want fast paced action, the likes of discord conversation, will buy the next release & forget about the last. They don’t want people complaining about a core system that’s been broken for years, they want people who are satisfied with a token patch 2 weeks after release, beyond that only caring about what comes next & forgetting what they bought 12 months ago unless it’s for layers. Blurry textures aren’t a massive problem when you have a community that effectively only observes the latest release as the one that matters.

All in all this isn’t a surprising thing to see from DTG, the writing was on the wall when they started pushing Discord (hopefully the community team sees the irony in that name), furthermore when information stopped being posted to the forum.

It’s a massive slap in the face to all the contributors over the years, for all its issues the Forum has always been a steady source of great knowledge, fixes for annoying bugs, insight & genuine discussion. The best part about all of that is it simply shows on search engines. Discord is perhaps one of the worst places to scale a genuine community. I’m sure many of us have been in a dreaded workplace ‘WhatsApp group’ only to be added to another that is more relevant for you - it’s the same with discord, the main group becomes useless & little more than spam, the splinter groups become the most useful places & that comes with heaps of intrinsic issues, the main one being decentralised information. This decision will simply leave a massive hole in the community, one that will likely only be solved by the creation of a non-official space.

I can’t say much more other than I agree with the above posts.

 

I hope they'll at least archive the General Discussion content as there is a ton of useful threads helping players. It would be a shame to lose that information.

It's been nice e-meeting you all, take care. Cheers.

I'll just get my anorak...

 

I supported DTG for a long time, I was thinking for a long time, it would simply get better, but this, THIS, is simply the last straw, i, and im sure a lot of other members of these forums are all sick of this nonsense, the same broken core, the features broken on release, the pathetic state of QA.

They can paint all the marketing nonsense they want, they’ve removed the general discussion side of TSW, because they simply DONT want the criticism.

They DONT want to hear the forums
They DONT want slander
They DONT want their business model changing.

Those who are unfamiliar with DTGs strategy, this simply isn’t some fixable game, no, this is WHO THEY ARE. It’s the whole point.

All the marketing, PR nonsense, just for DTG to slap a bandage on the wound, and call it a day.

It’s the truth that they will DO ANYTHING to savour their reputation, and pedal their pathetic spectacle of gaining profit.

DTG have always been one step forward, two steps back. Because…


THATS WHO THEY ARE.

 

For anyone concerned about the Awesome Services spreadsheets specifically, I raised this directly with DTG Harry and Alex. Harry has confirmed they are having internal discussions about long-standing useful threads like this one. Hopefully a positive outcome before 30th June.

 

If DTG respects our opinions and views, then they need to give us some form of discussion area for the game. Simple.

 

This is a stupid move since this is really the only forum topic where I get a real sense of community. Yes it might be a dysfunctional family at times, and passions might run hot and bounds might be overstretched at times but dang it, it was a community. I was one of the original maintainers of the awesome run spreadsheet, have learned of excellent utilities like Third Rail maps, the TSW annotation utility and the impressive TSW Raildriver utility by Cobra. Being a member of these forums basically since day one, I predict this will be the death of the forums. Good job DTG

 

Just when you start to think that even DTG can't find another way to alienate their core user base, along comes an utterly nonsensical decision like this.

Discord definitely isn't for me and, as much as I wouldn't consider myself a "power user" of these forums, I have generally found them - particularly the "General Discussion" ones to be an invaluable source of information as I've tried to get to grips with the game over the years.

In an ideal world would love to see this great (with potential to be way better) game in the hands of a company who actually listens.

 

I'm sorry Alex i know your trying your best with the cards you have been dealt, but this is going to be the last straw for a lot of us (me included) we have tried to be reasonable, we have tried to talk to you (DTG), i wish you and your team the best, but I'm done, ill play what i have but i won't be spending another penny to support this company, ill source my content from other vendors from now on.

 

But you've got a thriving community who use this forum? Why would you shoot it in the foot like that? We're all here and all engaging with DTG, TSW and Eachother? That's what a game developer should value and be proud of.

Especially because this environment is calm and laid back in terms of posts. I don't have to watch my phone 24 hours a day I can drift in and out to see what the community is talking about? I'm even on here when I'm not playing the game. I don't want to trawl through Discord chats to try and find subjects I'm interested in, it's not a replacement for the forums.

Although I will say the community is finally 100% united on something which is impressive. You need to listen to your community or you're going to lose it

 

So there are around 35 people who post on this forum. 80% of the posts are absolute drivel, the rest is potentially useful to someone, but could easily go into the troubleshooting and modding forums.
I ploughed through 18 full pages before my brain started to dribble out of my ears. The only threads worth saving IMHO are -

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/awesome-tsw-service-mode-runs.32010/
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/steam-a-realistic-challenge.72641/
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/latest-sales-thread.26334/
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/those-small-details.30968/

It was honestly quite a depressing 20 minutes read.

 

Thank you for your comment. But you see, not that is not what the posting is suggesting. All that you write in your answer is already possible, as a lot of fellow TSW-Gamer suggested in this thread.

I get it. It is hard, it is teadious, it is not alway welcomed, but as community manager your job is also keeping the forum tidy. With the suggested changes you will change the nature of this forum, you will change the structure and the heart of this forum, btw, instead of getting rid of double postings of yourself in the announcements and article threads. These changes will end the community pretty sure, this forum will change into another PR-instrument. Sorry, but at least it feels this way. In this thread are a lot of very reasonable alternatives. If DTG is still interested into this community you should consider these. If not ... well just say it. Thats fine too. We wrap up, get our coats and go.

 

I refuse to support a company who will actively silence discussion in the community.

my money is going to third parties who genuinely try their best and make their routes and enjoy making what they do, rather than some marketing nonsense.


Vote with your wallets.

 

This makes sense to me. If its easier to find discussion and sensible/constructive feedback threads in relevant sub forums im all for it. There are quite a few threads in the general forums that go off topic or become unpleasant. Clearer sub forums to give feedback and discuss which actually helps developers is something id much rather see here. Hope it all goes well.