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Route Merger Packs

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Jun 4, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    74 vote(s)
    92.5%
  2. No, but I am interested in merger packs without locos

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  3. No

    5 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, a while ago after Matt adressed route mergers and their difficulties on stream (and their possibilities), I made a thread discussing that in the PC forums, that came with a poll (see image below).

    [​IMG]

    The discussion resulted in a few routes that are suggested for potential merging, and the poll showed that many people are willing to pay for it (with for example a loco pack, which is where this suggestion will be going).

    What I'm suggesting
    I'm suggesting that DTG starts selling merger packs, that consist of one or two trains and the merging of two (or more) routes. For players that own both routes already a pack consisting of just the merger and a loco will be available, and for players that don't own any of the routes a full pack consisting of the two routes, a merger, and the loco will be available (possibily with a 5-10% discount compared to buying everything seperately).

    The merger (besides one or two trains) comes with unified timetables, working PIS across the route and of course scenario planner functionality.

    To illustrate this suggestion, I'll now put forward a few possible route mergers that are possible in game currentely (or in the near future), and a few ones that require additional routes to be made.



    Currently (or soon to be) possible mergers


    East Coastway + Brighton Mainline + Class 171
    First of all, please note that I'm not that familiar with the ins and outs of British railways, and the 171 might therefore not be a fitting choice for this merger pack. (I'm of course open for other suggestions)

    This pack would merge the already in-game East Coastway to the upcoming Brighton Mainline (Rush Hour), and would come with the Class 171 DMU in Southern livery.

    [​IMG]
    Southern class 171/7

    For players that own both routes a Class 171 + route merger pack will be available

    For players that own neither of the two routes, a pack consisting of ECW, BML, the Class 171 and a merger will be available. (this might get tricky due to BML coming in a route pack, which might not make it available for sale in another bundle, but that's up to DTG).



    Ruhr-Sieg Nord + Rhein-Ruhr Osten + BR 294 and/or BR 151

    This pack will merge RSN and RRO (an often requested merger) and will come with the BR 294 heavy diesel shunter/light mainline locomotive and/or BR 151 electric six-axle freight locomotive. Both locos can be seen in either DB or Railion (or both) liveries.

    [​IMG]
    Railion BR 294

    [​IMG]
    Railion BR 151

    For players that own both routes, a BR 294 and/or BR 151 + route merger pack wil be available

    For players that own neither of the two routes, a pack consisting of RSN, RRO and the BR 294 and/or BR 151 will be available.




    Hypothetical mergers that require new routes


    Great Western Express + Reading - Oxford + Class 180

    Again, I'm no expert on British railways, keep that in mind and correct me where wrong.

    This pack would merge the existing GWE (London Paddington - Reading) with a Reading - Oxford route, suggested by SeaHawk 14. For rolling stock, a (troublesome) GWR/FGW Class 180 Adelante might be a possibility, as that did run on the line in 2016 (which I believe GWE is set in).

    [​IMG]
    A FGW Class 180 Adelante.



    Bahnstrecke Riesa - Dresden (Rush Hour) + Dresden - Děčín + DB and/or MRCE BR 189 and/or DB BR 146.0

    This pack would merge the upcoming Riesa - Dresden with Dresden - Děčín (as suggested by me, with A ČD 193 Vecton and the DB BR 180/ČD 372/371), coming with the BR 189, which is often seen on both routes, in DB and/or MRCE livery. Another possibility would be the BR 146.0, which operates the majority of S-bahn services in and around Dresden.

    [​IMG]
    A DB BR 189

    [​IMG]
    A MRCE BR 189 (ES 64 F4 is the name MRCE and Siemens use for it)

    [​IMG]
    146 017 with a VVO public transit advertisement.

    [​IMG]
    146 013 with a Felsenbühne Rathen advertisement.



    Schnellfahrstrecke Köln - Aachen + Schnellfahrstrecke Köln - Rhein/Main + S-bahn Köln BR 423
    This pack would merge SKA with Swedewagons popular Schnellfahrstrecke Köln - Rhein/Main suggestion. It will come with a S-bahn Köln version of the BR 423, which will add S-bahn services on both routes (on SKA it replaces the BR 422).

    [​IMG]

    A S-bahn Köln BR 423


    Rapid Transit + Leipzig - Riesa + Riesa - Dresden + DB and/or MRCE BR 193

    This pack will merge the Rapid Transit route with Reisa - Dresden via Leipzig - Riesa (as suggested by me). This merger would add the main hall of Leipzig Hbf to Rapid Transit, as this will be present on Leipzig - Riesa, and thus will be merged onto Rapid Transit. This will create a small network around Leipzig Hbf, with S-bahn lines extending north and south through the tunnel, IC and ICE services going either through the tunnel and out east after that, or they will arrive into the main hall. Further Regional services on both RT and Leipzig - Riesa will terminate in the main hall of Leipzig Hbf. Optionally this pack can be taken even further by including the Dresden - Děčín I mentioned previously. The BR 193 would add (more) freight services to all the routes included. Personally I prefer the MRCE livery.

    [​IMG]
    DB BR 193

    [​IMG]
    MRCE BR 193



    Hypothetical mergers that merge more than 2 routes.

    This last part gets a bit more difficult, as it will merge 3 or more routes into one. For this suggestion I will still assume the merger is one pack, but it might have to be multiple packs.

    Schnellfahrstrecke Köln - Aachen + Köln - Wuppertal + Rhein-Ruhr Osten + Ruhr-Sieg Nord + DB IC 2

    This pack will merge a total of 4 routes, being linked up by my Köln - Wuppertal suggestion (with the ICE 2 and National Express Talent 2). It will come with the DB IC 2 (1st generation) sets consisting of a BR 146.5 and IC Dostos, which runs the IC55 service from Köln to Hagen via Wuppertal (and onwards).

    [​IMG]
    DB BR 146.5 with IC Dostos

    [​IMG]
    IC Dosto cab car

    In addition to this, creeperblox2710's suggestion for the route between Wuppertal and Solingen over Remscheid with the S7 line could be used to create an extra connection between RRO and Köln - Wuppertal, in a pack with the DB BR 261.

    [​IMG]
    DB BR 261



    Schnellfahrstrecke Köln - Aachen + Köln - Düsseldorf + Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr + ICE 4

    This pack will merge SKA with HRR, via MrSouthernDriver's Köln - Düsseldorf (- Duisburg) suggestion, which was also suggested by Perks390. It will come with the DB ICE 4 (BR 412), which operates multiple ICE services across Köln - Duisburg and HRR.

    [​IMG]
    A DB ICE 4 (BR 412)

    Alternatively SKA and HRR could also be connected via Aachen - Mönchengladbach - Duisburg (with either a RRX Siemens Desiro HC or DB BR 111 + Dostos), either in addition to the route over Düsseldorf (creating a real network) or instead of it.



    Great Western Express + North Downs Line Reading - Gatwick + Brighton Mainline + Class 165/1

    This pack would merge GWE with the upcoming BML via the north Downs line via redhill. It would include the GWR (or FGW) Class 165/1

    [​IMG]
    GWR Class 165/1



    Brighton Mainline + Redhill - Strood + Southeastern High Speed + Class 375/3
    Again, it speaks for itself. This pack would merge the upcoming BML and SEH via the Redhill - Strood line with a Southeastern class 375/3 (perhaps in the white SE livery?). Perhaps this set of routes can even be merged with the North Downs line and GWE, creating a massive network around the south of London.

    [​IMG]
    A class 375/3 in a white Southeastern livery.



    Final words
    of course I haven't mentioned every possible option for mergers, and this thread might be a bit German-focussed, so I'd love to hear your merger wishlist. I hope this thread gives a good idea of the merger + loco packs I'm proposing, and their interesting possibilities. These kind of packs and the merging system they come with will allow for longer connected routes which huge amounts of gameplay potential in the future!

    Personally, I really like the idea of a Rhein-Ruhr network, which only requires two new routes (Köln - Wuppertal and Köln - Duisburg), with another (Aachen - Duisburg) being an additional possibility and Köln - Frankfurt and Wuppertal-Solingen (via Remscheid) adding even more. The reason I like this idea is that all the routes are quite different from eachother (SKA is mixed high speed, HRR is a frequent stopping mainline, Köln - Wuppertal is a busy two tracked mainline with fewer stops that also provides the Köln freight diversion line for continuous frieght services, Köln - Duisburg is also very busy, but sees different kinds of traffic, RRO has two different split lines with one having an S-bahn focus, RSN is a freight focussed route, Wuppertal - Solingen via Remscheid is a diesel S-bahn line and Köln - Frankfurt dedicated high speed, with S-bahn action at either ends). This creates a network, without being boring and same, instead offering a world of variety for the player.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    SKA & HRR merge via Monchengladbach makes sense because the HRR DB BR425 has RB33 Aachen posted on the destination sign it will make Dortmund/Bochum Aachen drivable without going to Koln Hbf via SKA but IC2 is RRO+Hagen-Hannover-Helmstedt former West German border station on the Hannover Magdeburg Line. The Former East German section of IC2 is Marienborn-Magdeburg-Leipzig-Riesa and the Rush Hour Riesa Dresden route. That means IC2 gets to encounter heavy S-Bahn traffic at Wuppertal-Hagen Hannover-Magdeburg-Leipzig (S-Bahn Leipzig S3) & Dresden areas
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
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  3. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I hope Hagen-Siegen falls into this category :D BR o7

    I would pay for connecting the German routes, even if I already had them separately.
     
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  4. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hagen - Siegen (or rather Finnentrop - Siegen), Köln - Siegen and Köln - Koblenz could all be possible additions to such a network, the possibilities in that area are nearly endless just due to the sheer density of railways in that lart of the world (one of densest railway networks in the world, if not outright the densest)
     
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  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Correct and also HRR with Main Spessart Bahn if Frankfurt Am Main Hbf to Aschaffenburg Hbf is built followed by Köln Dusseldorf Duisburg Railway and Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein-Main the DB BR403 can now operate ICE Line 41 München to Bochum via Nuremberg Würzburg Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg and the Lohr Connector to Main Spessart Bahn. During the Late Nights The Amsterdam Dusseldorf Köln Nürnberg Linz Wien Nightjet sleeper train is the only passenger service on Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Lohr section. Timetable for that train might require the Banking locomotive couple to its back for Heigenbrücken Laufach section then separate from the Nightjet at Heigenbrücken.
     
  6. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    You missed a suggestion that could merge up with your Köln-Wuppertal one. ;)
     
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  7. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Or alternatively you could have Cathcart Circle and anything along the lines of Inverclyde, Ayrshire, Glasgow Southwestern, WCML, Glasgow - Edinburgh via Carstairs, etc.
     
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  8. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    Another pair are as follows.

    North Downs Line Reading to Gatwick via Redhill + Class 165/1 GWR

    Redhill to Strood via Tonbridge and Paddock Wood + Class 375/3 South Eastern

    These would give us links between GWE and BML routes and BML and SEHS routes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'll give it a mention ;)
     
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  10. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Those are also really good options! I'll include them in the original post, though I won't garuantee I'll do that for every suggested merger (due to picture limits and it being a bit of work for me too).
     
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  11. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I think Matt mentioned often that the way merges work should be a system that goes like: Oh you own route A? And route B? There You go, that makes route A'B'.
    This system is complex (i think especially for console) and not developed/in work yet.
    So I don't think it's realsitc to expect a loco, that comes with it though your loco suggestion are very nice! Althogh I don't think a Ruhr-Network would be that nice but having a Cologne-Koblenz - a very popular route among german railway fans and TS-players - route merges with SKA would be very very nice!
     
  12. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think this is how this should be done, I think very few people will want to pay to do this, maybe instead when you get to the end of the represented area it automatically takes you to another route
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
  13. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    Describe your route between Leeds and Darlington?

    I'm guessing the ECML.
     
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  14. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    Maybe also Eastbourne to Hastings to Ebbsfleet International via Ashford International.
     
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  15. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    How about a Small Extension to London Bridge for the BML with the Class 700?
     
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  16. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    Well the Class 171 is operating on the Line to Ashford International, so that Line would be needed for the Class 171 Services.
     
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  17. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe you could get away with this: ECW (Extended to Ashford) + SEHS (Extended to Ashford) with the Class 171
     
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  18. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Really nice suggestion, I hope that DTG will build it into the game, but still there is a huge problem, it won't be a problem for PC players because they can handle with a lot of layers if they have a really good PC, but what about console players? The only thing is, that they will finish the function that also the other layers can be added to HMA for console and then this function could be added to merged routes, but still really nice suggestion like always, hopefully DTG will implement it into the game
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    A win win situation because at Ashford International you can simply transfer between ECW Class 171 & Class 395/375 SEHS.
     
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  20. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And if anyone owns BML and a potential Chatham Mainline could make the possibility of a full loop.
     
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  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Chatham Main Line we already have a portion of it as SEHS Rochester Faversham the missing sections are London Victoria to Rochester and Faversham to Ramsgate and Dover. I also had my own Merger Plan it's Haputstrecke Rhein-Ruhr with Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Railway with DB BR189 because if you look at HRR Map Mülheim Styrum is actually a linking station with Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Railway so is Duisburg HBF on HRR. On the other hand a long-distance merge is Haputstrecke Rhein-Ruhr with Main Spessart Bahn which requires Köln Duisburg Railway Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein-Main and Frankfurt Am Main Hbf Aschaffenburg Railway line to be built.
     
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  22. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I know about the existing CML, I'm more focusing on Rochester - London
     
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  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    BML Linking to SEHS with CML Rochester London Victoria section. The end result is this London Victoria BML to Faversham SEHS.
     
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  24. csxfan#8403

    csxfan#8403 Active Member

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    Here's another couple route merger ideas:
    Peninsula Corridor and Capitol Corridor linking up at Santa Clara Junction
    Sand Patch and Mountain Sub aka The West End linking at Viaduct Junction in Cumberland.
    The S&C Subdivision from Rockwood to Johnstown.
    The Magnolia Cutoff east from Cumberland to Hancock, WV
    And finally, BML via the North Downs Branch linking to ECW and GWE
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  25. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    Theres a gap between BML and GWE you know. ;)
     
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  26. csxfan#8403

    csxfan#8403 Active Member

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    Lemme guess, the North Downs Branch from Reading to Gatwick?
     
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  27. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    Yup and it is mentioned in the First Post.
     
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  28. csxfan#8403

    csxfan#8403 Active Member

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    Noted. And I've made some edits to my contribution as well to include it
     
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  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    +1 for this. The good thing with ts21 is you feel like you’ve driven somewhere. Tsw2 unless you’re doing a 15mph route feels like popping to the shop
     
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  30. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I really like the idea of buying a pack which has a merged version of two routes and everything in them plus some new content, I think this is a fairly neat solution to the problem and also allows you to continue to use the routes in their original form. Good thinking.

    Paul
     
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  31. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to see a lot more of uk network brought over from train sim, equally I’d hope Germany and us had a more route merged network.
     
  32. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    For the GWR+ line I think the HST would be the right fit, potentially the godawful 800s that are running now. Of course eventually there will be an Eastern extension via Crossrail with its own EMUs, but that's still not open yet so impossible to recreate. I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes the next thing they add to that region though.

    As for further western extensions, as well as the Oxford route (and onward to Bicester and Birmingham), there's also the option down toward Swindon, i.e the actual GWR route that continues on to Swindon and Bristol. Absolute dream territory there tho, no way DTG could manage a couple hundred mile route.
     
  33. Goldeneye48

    Goldeneye48 New Member

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    The idea is a good one, but you do have to ask - "Will this run on a console? Will it lag? Will it lag on loading? Would the detail be reduced on consoles verses other platforms?" This might be possible if it ONLY came out for the PC platform, but we also have to take in consideration of the console platforms. Overall, good thought for the future of the sim.
     
  34. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    Well i got a Few questions
    1. Do the Merged routes come with the locos from the routes its merging together along with new?
    2. If it doesnt and i own the Original routes can i still do the Scenarios for the standard route’s locos on the Merged route? Also applies to journeys
    3. If i complete a service on a route does it complete on the Merged variant?
     
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  35. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Console is an interesting point. Some routes would merge fine because the routes themselves are fairly short, but some of the German ones which have the most overlap are also the most performance challenged by themselves. We could look at the performance challenges for example why are there massive yards that are fully operational and signalled but never used? Perhaps a merged version could do without the trackage that is never utilised?

    In time (not suggesting the time is now) the legacy consoles might drop off the radar, it's not likely DTG would do this for a long time given the minimum PC specs needed to run the game come from the mid 2000's.

    What could become an option is that older hardware can still run the game, but the game detects its on lower end equipment and adjusts downward even more than it does today.

    Paul
     
  36. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    What might happen is anyone's guess on this feature request!

    If I might offer a perspective
    1. I would think yes to be most viable as a selling point to people who do not have one or both of the single routes merged into a new route package - there is also maximum incentive for minimum investment here because the models already exist
    2. I would think there would be new scenarios and journeys on the merged route package because it would have to have a different time table
    3. I would think not because they are different routes as far as the game is concerned.

    Paul
     
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  37. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's how it will probably work, not sure though of course.
     
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  38. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's an interesting question. The route itself shouldn't be an issue, as only the tile your in is loaded in (that's why you might experience lag when driving through a large yard, but not on a straight section of track surrounded by trees).

    However, a merged route might also see more services, and that could be an issue. I hope optimization will take care of that before we ever get to merged routes.
     
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  39. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I have now also added my (somewhat forgotten) Leipzig - Riesa suggestion, which merges Rapid Transit to Riesa - Dresden to the list. I think that route would be a really great merge as it gives RT the main hall of Leipzig Hbf, and thus more options for RB, RE, IC and ICE traffic on that route. It will also create a nice network around Leipzig with S-bahn lines extending north, south and east, and some IC and ICE services going through the tunnel, using a southern approach into Leipzig Hbf, while other IC, ICE, RE and RB lines will approach the main hall from the north. (to illustrate this better I have included the map of Leipzig - Riesa below, check out that suggestion for more details.)

    [​IMG]
     
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  40. Wieczorek

    Wieczorek New Member

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    Ist that possible route merge in TSW2 ?DTG making this not.This is too many work.
     
  41. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is hypothetically possible, and has already been done by modders. Matt, the senior producer of TSW, has actually discussed the options and issues in a stream. I made a thread discussing that in the PC forums, please do check it out if you want to know more about whether mergers are possible.
     
  42. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I think it would.
    Loading times might be a little bit longer but it would run on console.

    because of the way TSW only loads the relevant area around you, as opposed to the entire route.
     
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